baggio202 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 with his line up???...4 lefties on the roster batting averages against lefty pitchers harris 135 timo 176 valentin 203 gload 500 harris and uribe start..and bat 1 and 2????...we were dead in the water before the first pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxShuf Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Did you attempt to see Gload in right field ouch. I want our lineup back with Harris leading off, and Rowand 2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Did you attempt to see Gload in right field ouch. I want our lineup back with Harris leading off, and Rowand 2nd Agreed, rowand is an ideal number 2 hitter because he has some good pop and good speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Did you attempt to see Gload in right field ouch. I want our lineup back with Harris leading off, and Rowand 2nd Then who sits? Uribe, Crede or Valentin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 why have rowand bunt, when he's hitting about .400 with an OPS of about 1.200 vs. LHP... He's your best hitter vs. lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Did you attempt to see Gload in right field ouch. I want our lineup back with Harris leading off, and Rowand 2nd our bats are dead right now....gload is one of the few guys that was/is hitting...i know he's not roberto clemente in the outfield.... but when you really need a game like we needed this one tonight and in your last 3 games you scored 2 , 2 and 2 runs , i think you take the chance , especially with buehrle being a ground ball pitcher , that you can get by for one game with gload's glove... he's a lefty that can hit lefty pitching..you have find a spot for him..jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 why have rowand bunt, when he's hitting about .400 with an OPS of about 1.200 vs. LHP... He's your best hitter vs. lefties. Well since he did bunt and got them over you would think the day team could score just the one damn run to tie it . But i agree i would of had him swinging away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Well since he did bunt and got them over you would think the day team could score just the one damn run to tie it . But i agree i would of had him swinging away. You don't give away outs when you have a guy with a 1.200 OPS in the batters box. PERIOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I've said it and I'll say it again. Ozzie Guillen is a poor manager, but gets the guys up and ready to play. However, he uses the pitching staff poorly, doesn't use the bench properly, and can't make a decision. Going by the numbers works more than your 'gut'...especially when one has 0 years of experience. Guillen is fun, but if anything is going to stop the White Sox from winning this division or going deep into the playoffs, it's going to be his head. He's plumb dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 harris and uribe start..and bat 1 and 2????...we were dead in the water before the first pitch Everybody, lay the f*** off Ozzie. How was he supposed to know that Uribe, Crede, Rowand couldn't hit to save their lives off a deeeeeply mediocre LHP like Rusch? I mean my God, they got hangers and either fouled them off or popped them up. Horrid at bats - and they're supposed to be good against LHP. Jose needed to be sat against a lefty because he is overswinging again, and Gload/Timo is a losing proposition either way. Burke was actually 1 for 3 - how much better do you think Sandy would have done? Buerhle is a pitcher - Cubs had an automatic out as well in Rusch. His players failed him, plain and simple. And why the f*** is Magglio not playing? If he is indeed as "structurally" healthy as they claim he is, and if indeed the reason he is not running well is scar-tissue related, then his ass should have been in RF in all 3 games - Sox win at least 1 if not 2 if he plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I've said it and I'll say it again. Ozzie Guillen is a poor manager, but gets the guys up and ready to play. However, he uses the pitching staff poorly, doesn't use the bench properly, and can't make a decision. Going by the numbers works more than your 'gut'...especially when one has 0 years of experience. Guillen is fun, but if anything is going to stop the White Sox from winning this division or going deep into the playoffs, it's going to be his head. He's plumb dumb. He's dusty baker jr. They're great player managers but they suck at in game managing. That being said I would have also had rowand bunting, it wasn't ozzie's fault joe couldn't hit a ground ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I'm sure if Rowand would have GIDP'd, people would now be questioning why he wasn't bunting. Insert that cliche with the hindsight and 20/20 thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 I've said it and I'll say it again. Ozzie Guillen is a poor manager, but gets the guys up and ready to play. However, he uses the pitching staff poorly, doesn't use the bench properly, and can't make a decision. Going by the numbers works more than your 'gut'...especially when one has 0 years of experience. Guillen is fun, but if anything is going to stop the White Sox from winning this division or going deep into the playoffs, it's going to be his head. He's plumb dumb. that is a pretty good synopsis of ozzie so far....he makes some of the dumbest managerial decisions..both in game and with the line up..but he also is a great motivator and the team can make up for alot of his screw ups...but no amout of rah - rah was going to make tonight's line up score a lot of runs hopefully ozzie just needs a little more experience...check his stats more... take a lesson from tony larussa...the anti - ozzie...the best decision manager ive ever seen..and maybe the worst relationship manager ive ever seen...if we could combine their strengths we have the best manager ever..if we combined their weaknesses we'd get terry bevington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 You don't give away outs when you have a guy with a 1.200 OPS in the batters box. PERIOD. That player was badly jammed/fooled in his previous 2 at bats against said pitcher. That player has some speed so there is a chance that a converted-3B Martinez hesitates while fielding a bunt and Aaron is safe at 1st, which loads the bases with no outs. The bunt worked like a charm. Crede had a 2-0 count and Rusch was beginning to fall apart - he threw Joe what would have been a ball 3. As in 3-0 count. As in close to walking the bases loaded with 1 out and Sox poised to blow the inning wide open. It was the right call. Ozzie played the circumstances right and had faith in Buerhle, Shingo and Marte to keep the Cubs from scoring........It didn't work out thanks to Crede - if he comes through and Sox take the 2-1 lead on Lee's homer, I doubt Shingo blows the game - Cubs would have been too anxious in a do-or-die 9th and Shingo would have eaten them alive like he did at USCF last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Everybody, lay the f*** off Ozzie. How was he supposed to know that Uribe, Crede, Rowand couldn't hit to save their lives off a deeeeeply mediocre LHP like Rusch? I mean my God, they got hangers and either fouled them off or popped them up. Horrid at bats - and they're supposed to be good against LHP. Jase needed to be sat against a lefty because he is overswinging again, and Gload/Timo is a losing proposition either way. Burke was actually 1 for 3 - how much better do you think Sandy would have done? Buerhle is a pitcher - Cubs had an automatic out as well in Rusch. His players failed him, plain and simple. And why the f*** is Magglio not playing? If he is indeed as "structurally" healthy as they claim he is, and if indeed the reason he is not running well is scar-tissue related, then his ass should have been in RF in all 3 games - Sox win at least 1 if not 2 if he plays. lay off ozzie???...um no.. did manuel ever get a free pass here???... ozzie's players failed him tonight in part because he put them in a position to fail...he could have gotten away with harris and uribe 1 and 2 they way they are playing if we were playing by AL rules and both maggs and frank were in the line up....but we were missing our two most dangerous hitters so he had no more margin for error...of the 4 lefty hitters to chose from he picked the two with the worst averages against lefty pitchers to play and left the two best on the bench... it was a bad line up tonight...why should he not be called on it???... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 ozzie's players failed him tonight in part because he put them in a position to fail... Truer word were never spoken... He took the bat out of Rowand's hand twice tonight against LHP. He sent Damaso, A Flyball Pitcher, into face Walker(only Arimas Ramirez has a hit a better ratio of Flyballs on the cubs) -- If that's not setting a pitcher up to fail, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 it was a bad line up tonight...why should he not be called on it???... It was not a bad line-up given the options and the weak pitcher they were to face. After what Gload did against the Cubs on both Fridays (read: cost games with atrocious defense), he should be on the bench. Him batting .500 against lefties is a fluke - not enough atbats to draw conclusion. Jose needed a day-off. The entire task of beating Rusch's brain in fell on Uribe, Lee, Konerko, Rowand, Crede and Burke - they're supposed to be good against LHP, right? Well, outside of Konerko, Lee and maybe Burke, they failed....which means that Perez and Harris were put in a situation where they had to save the team - and they can't do it against LHP anymore than Jose and Gload would have been able to. Sox played like losers, so they found a way to lose to Glendon f***in' Rusch. It had very little to do with Ozzie - the team would have lost with Gload, Alomar and Jose as well, trust me. Blame the players for choking. Blame the Cubs for being too good. Blame the NL batting format. Ozzie did what he could with what he had. Which admittedly not a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Truer word were never spoken... He took the bat out of Rowand's hand twice tonight against LHP. He sent Damaso, A Flyball Pitcher, into face Walker(only Arimas Ramirez has a hit a better ratio of Flyballs on the cubs) -- If that's not setting a pitcher up to fail, I don't know what is. Rowand hit a weak bloop to 2B in his 1st AB and then K'd in his 2nd. Ozzie should have been fired if he didn't bunt in that situation in the 7th. The entire blame is on Crede. The end. Fly ball hitter? Give me a break. Lefties are something like 5 for 40 against Marte. Shingo was tired, erratic and very hittable. It was a good move, especially when Walker fell behind 0-2 and was swinging at everything in sight - THAT's when Marte had to uncork a beautifil slurve of his and Walker would have missed it by a foot. But then Marte decided to fall apart instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Ozzie Guillen is a poor manager, but gets the guys up and ready to play. However, he uses the pitching staff poorly, doesn't use the bench properly, and can't make a decision. Any manager gets 2nd guessed. But if you are saying Ozzie did all this in last night's game, I didn't see it. Was he wrong in bringing Shingo in for the 8th? No. To start the 9th? He had an easy 8th. Was he wrong to bring Marte in? No. Marte can get a K in that spot, nad also LH hitters were like 5 for 40 off him. Used the bench improperly? over the course of a season, guys can take a seat for any numbers of reasons that fans have no clue why. Ozzie uses all the guys on the roster, and it will pay dividends in the 2nd half. Can't make a decision? Like.......? It sounds more like a laundry list of complaints from other games rather than from this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Blame the players for choking. Blame the Cubs for being too good. Blame the NL batting format. Ozzie did what he could with what he had. Which admittedly not a lot. I completely agree. To think this loss is Ozzie's fault is silly. The Sox faced a pitcher who they tried to play homerun derby off instead of just trying to put the ball in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Crede's at bat was probably the single, worst at bat of the year for the team. I don't blame Ozzie at all for that. I might blame Ozzie if he doesn't get in Crede's face soon so he can explain how to play the game in a situation like that. He needs to sit for at least one game. Hitting a can of corn fly ball to the opposite field is not that difficult if you know what you are doing. And he had a good pitch to do it. Ozzie needs to have a purpose visit with Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 It was not a bad line-up given the options and the weak pitcher they were to face. Don't look know, but that weak pitcher's numbers are better than Buehrle's. Rowand hit a weak bloop to 2B in his 1st AB After being asked to bunt and getting down 0-2 in the count.... I do agree with you Brando that Marte was the right choice to face Walker. Marte just stopped making good pitches. Two or three times he hung breaking balls on the inside part of the plate, when the same pitch on the outside portion would have resulted in an out. He just didn't make the pitches once he got him down 0-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkdog Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I'm sure Ozzie had a reason for every decision he made last night. But when he brought in Shingo in the 8th, I knew the game was over even if the Sox managed to come back. Which they did. This was a critisicm I had of Manuel as well - NEVER BRING YOUR CLOSER INTO A NON-CLOSING SITUATION, UNLESS HE IS THE LAST PITCHER YOU HAVE AVAILABLE. Sure Shingo pitched a good 8th, but in the 9th he was gassed and missing his spots. Shingo needs to get ahead of hitters to be effective. What happens? Gives up a hit. Intentional walk, and other walk. Bang - the bases are loaded. Now, you pull him, and bring in Marte where he must strike out Walker? Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire. The odds of Marte succeeding there were long to begin with. But say he did - now what? If the Sox manage to scratch out another run to take the lead - you force the closer role on another pitcher who never or rarely performs in that capacity, because, if I'm not mistaken, Marte's spot in the order would have been due up in the top of the 10th. Ozzie may like National League style baseball, but he's not ready to manage a National League team - not with decision making like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 lay off ozzie???...um no.. did manuel ever get a free pass here???... ozzie's players failed him tonight in part because he put them in a position to fail...he could have gotten away with harris and uribe 1 and 2 they way they are playing if we were playing by AL rules and both maggs and frank were in the line up....but we were missing our two most dangerous hitters so he had no more margin for error...of the 4 lefty hitters to chose from he picked the two with the worst averages against lefty pitchers to play and left the two best on the bench... it was a bad line up tonight...why should he not be called on it???... Excuse me, but how is a 2-0 count where Crede pops a slow fastball, chest high, up on the infield 'setting his players up to fail'? If Rowand grounds out, we're all complaining about him not bunting. Guillen made the right move, Crede didn't execute. Ill admit Ozzie has made his fair share of dumb decisions, but last night was not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 hopefully ozzie just needs a little more experience...check his stats more... take a lesson from tony larussa...the anti - ozzie...the best decision manager ive ever seen..and maybe the worst relationship manager ive ever seen...if we could combine their strengths we have the best manager ever..if we combined their weaknesses we'd get terry bevington That is brilliant. Off to the quotes of the month thread with that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.