jeremyb Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 How is it that Sox didn't know this guy was not ML material? He literally has nothing to get ML hitters out with - no intimidation, no deception, no command, certainly no stuff. BP. Conceeding games is not fun, whether it be April or September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 How is it that Sox didn't know this guy was not ML material? He literally has nothing to get ML hitters out with - no intimidation, no deception, no command, certainly no stuff. BP. Conceeding games is not fun, whether it be April or September. I dunno man, that 87 MPH heater hes grooving in there is pretty threatening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 He has a nice offspeed pitch. He just doesnt use it effectively. But he's my boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 How is it that Sox didn't know this guy was not ML material? He literally has nothing to get ML hitters out with - no intimidation, no deception, no command, certainly no stuff. BP. Conceeding games is not fun, whether it be April or September. The guy is recovering from a pretty serious injury and just now getting back on track and everyone else we have trotted out there has failed pretty badly. I think Josh can be ok if he develops his pitches a bit more. Instead of pissing on the guy why not give him the benefit of trying to put together some quality innings while we are out of the race and hopefully he comes back that much better next year. It isn't like our playoff hopes hinged on him performing. They were gone way before Josh came back to town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quade36 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I've always liked Stewart. How can you say he is bad if he has never been given a real chance? I think he will make a good middle relief pitcher next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 The biggest problem I see with Stewart is that his fastball is way too straight. If you throw 87 mph in the majors, you need some movement or sink to it. Rather, his fastball just sits on a platter for the batter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Like I said in the thread, I have a feeling this is the last game Stewart will ever start for the Sox. He's not a major league starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 The biggest problem I see with Stewart is that his fastball is way too straight. If you throw 87 mph in the majors, you need some movement or sink to it. Rather, his fastball just sits on a platter for the batter. platter for the batter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Like I said in the thread, I have a feeling this is the last game Stewart will ever start for the Sox. He's not a major league starter. We can just add him to the long list of 4a players in the sox orginization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 We can just add him to the long list of 4a players in the sox orginization. best AAAA club in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 We can just add him to the long list of 4a players in the sox orginization. Exactly. That's the smartest thing I've heard in a long time on here. Just think of the guys that match that: -Harris -Borchard -Stewart -Adkins (still in doubt) -Cotts -Crede I blame a ton of this on our player development. I can't think of an organization that is worse at developing their own players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Exactly. That's the smartest thing I've heard in a long time on here. Just think of the guys that match that: -Harris -Borchard -Stewart -Adkins (still in doubt) -Cotts -Crede I blame a ton of this on our player development. I can't think of an organization that is worse at developing their own players. you can take Harris off that list... At least his avg is respectable and he has a high OBP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 you can take Harris off that list... At least his avg is respectable and he has a high OBP I agree, he has not had the greatest year by any means, but it has been repectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 The guy is recovering from a pretty serious injury and just now getting back on track and everyone else we have trotted out there has failed pretty badly. I think Josh can be ok if he develops his pitches a bit more. Instead of pissing on the guy why not give him the benefit of trying to put together some quality innings while we are out of the race and hopefully he comes back that much better next year. It isn't like our playoff hopes hinged on him performing. They were gone way before Josh came back to town. No thanks. I've seen enough of this stiff.....last year. I was horrified when they brought him up - at least Diaz has ML talent, so he might actually get something valuable out of a ML stint, even if he is getting his ass handed to him. I'll say this however: if Garland is not the 5th starter next year (read: KW fails to secure a Carl Pavano, an Odalis Perez or some such), some people will have to be fired. If these highly-paid pro's can't learn the lesson 2003 and 2004 tried to teach them, they should be there. And they better not touch Brandon MaCarthy before 2006, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I agree, he has not had the greatest year by any means, but it has been repectable. The only reason I put Willie on that list is cause the difference in his homer and steal numbers from AAA to the big leagues. I agree though that he shouldnt be on that list. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Exactly. That's the smartest thing I've heard in a long time on here. Just think of the guys that match that: -Harris -Borchard -Stewart -Adkins (still in doubt) -Cotts -Crede I blame a ton of this on our player development. I can't think of an organization that is worse at developing their own players. Harris you already talked about. But why Adkins and Cotts? They are rookie pitchers, and usually, rookie pitchers will make mistakes if they don't have dynamite stuff(and some who DO have dynamite stuff STILL make mistakes). When I look at Adkins and Cotts, I see two pitchers with good arms and good stuff who will both be good pitchers someday in the majors...Adkins definately as a reliever/setup guy, and Cotts either as a reliever or starter. These are not AAAA guys...they are guys who are inexperienced when it comes to pitching in the big leagues. When they cost us games, part of the blame goes on KW for not bringing in another player to allow one of them to get seasoning in the minors, and part of it goes on Ozzie for bringing them in in pressure situations(for example...seeing Minnesota play almost everyone of their games, I have seen how they develop their relievers...other then JC Romero, who just burst onto the scene in 02, what they have done is bring up about 1 rookie reliever at a time, let him pitch in some games where he will not affect the outcome, and let him get experience that way...I recall when Juan Rincon was getting lit up seemingly every night...now he is a stud. They seem to be doing that with Jesse Crain now too) Borchard and Crede is too early to tell right now...both could improve, but who knows. Stewart I do agree is a AAAAer...almost comparable to Mike Porzio, but it seemed that Porzio had a better arm, and that's not saying much for Stewart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 With Adkins, I said I was still unsure of what he is. I've actually been very happy with what Adkins has given us this year, but he's still unproven. Actually, his numbers this year are better than they were in the minors. Cotts, on the other hand, was dominant in the minors. However, his ERA since he's been in the big leagues has been bad. That's why I classify him as a AAAA player so far. He has plenty of time to lose that moniker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Harris you already talked about. But why Adkins and Cotts? They are rookie pitchers, and usually, rookie pitchers will make mistakes if they don't have dynamite stuff(and some who DO have dynamite stuff STILL make mistakes). When I look at Adkins and Cotts, I see two pitchers with good arms and good stuff who will both be good pitchers someday in the majors...Adkins definately as a reliever/setup guy, and Cotts either as a reliever or starter. These are not AAAA guys...they are guys who are inexperienced when it comes to pitching in the big leagues. When they cost us games, part of the blame goes on KW for not bringing in another player to allow one of them to get seasoning in the minors, and part of it goes on Ozzie for bringing them in in pressure situations(for example...seeing Minnesota play almost everyone of their games, I have seen how they develop their relievers...other then JC Romero, who just burst onto the scene in 02, what they have done is bring up about 1 rookie reliever at a time, let him pitch in some games where he will not affect the outcome, and let him get experience that way...I recall when Juan Rincon was getting lit up seemingly every night...now he is a stud. They seem to be doing that with Jesse Crain now too) Borchard and Crede is too early to tell right now...both could improve, but who knows. Stewart I do agree is a AAAAer...almost comparable to Mike Porzio, but it seemed that Porzio had a better arm, and that's not saying much for Stewart. I agree about adkins 100%, ever since he was called up last year i thought he could be a pretty good set-up man in the future. He just needs to improve his whip and he will be alright. While people view cotts as a starter i really think he would be better in long relief. Maybe that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Cotts, on the other hand, was dominant in the minors. However, his ERA since he's been in the big leagues has been bad. That's why I classify him as a AAAA player so far. He has plenty of time to lose that moniker. Well that's your problem right there, you're looking at ERA, which is not always truthful when talking about a reliever. Cotts has struggled starting innings, and then he usually departs and Koch/Thrller came in and let those runners score. However, he has been very good at not letting inherited runners scoring...I do not have the stats in front of me, but I do know this is true...others(specifically Cheat, among others) know where to find the amount of inherited runners scored. Along with having great numbers in that, he has a good K/9(almost 9), and a good K/BB(about 2), and considering he's only allowed 6 homers in 45 innings...as a rookie without dominant stuff, that's pretty good. His WHIP is a little high, but he has also struggled a little with his control(which is why his K/BB is only 2 when his K/9 is around 9). Once he gains a little more control of his pitches, he could be a stud reliever. Just as a point...he has allowed fewer hits then he has innings pitched, and that includes all of his rough outings, including his one and only start in Minnesota. Cotts has been much better then people give him credit for this year. He has a bright future ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 However, he has been very good at not letting inherited runners scoring...I do not have the stats in front of me, but I do know this is true...others(specifically Cheat, among others) know where to find the amount of inherited runners scored. Out of 24 inherited runners he has only let 5 score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Well that's your problem right there, you're looking at ERA, which is not always truthful when talking about a reliever. Cotts has struggled starting innings, and then he usually departs and Koch/Thrller came in and let those runners score. Could'nt have said it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 Cotts has been much better then people give him credit for this year. He has a bright future ahead of him. Not unless his control and breaking arsenal improve dramatically in the off-season. There is no short-cut to ML success - hide the ball, hit your spots, get ahead of the hitter and wipe him out with an 'out' pitch or two. Can't do that? Then pay the price. Right now, Cotts flat-out sucks. It remains to be seen if he is even in the majors a year from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Right now, Cotts flat-out sucks. rolleyeyes.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 rolleyeyes.gif I second that. rolleyeyes.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 The thing with Cotts is that I don't know how he'll ever be able to start with only one true pitch. Not only does he need an offspeed pitch, but his control isn't exactly reliable. I wouldn't be opposed to KW using Cotts as a chip to trade if he has some value. Not that I don't think he can't be good, I just don't think he's as close as people think he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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