Bears Talk

[southsider2k5]

The Bears have 8 coaches doing their jobs for the first time. Plus they essentially have a rookie QB, a twice cast off RB, and a WR core held together with duct tape, that just lost their leader.

 

I get the feeling the Bears won't win 5 games this year, or win a couple of their last games to get another pick around 10th.

 

This team scares me, and not in a good way.

[T R U]

The Bears have 8 coaches doing their jobs for the first time.  Plus they essentially have a rookie QB, a twice cast off RB, and a WR core held together with duct tape, that just lost their leader. 

 

I get the feeling the Bears won't win 5 games this year, or win a couple of their last games to get another pick around 10th.

 

This team scares me, and not in a good way.

thank GOD someone else sees through the smoke screen

 

 

Everything you have just said is a true about this team as it gets..

[CWSGuy406]

Let me put this on the table right now. If healthy for the majority of the season, Thomas Jones will rackup 2000+ yards (rushing + receiving combined). And I honestly believe that, too. He's got an awesome O-Line, and it's all about the chain effect. Jones running the ball will make our receivers more effective, our TE's more effective, thus, Rex Grossman more effective.

 

I don't know how anyone can say the Lions are going to be better than the Bears, especially when you say that the Bears are unproven, yet somehow the Lions aren't, yet with basically three rooks at three huge positions. Plus a QB with an aweful QB rating in his career.

[T R U]

Let me put this on the table right now.  If healthy for the majority of the season, Thomas Jones will rackup 2000+ yards (rushing + receiving combined).  And I honestly believe that, too.  He's got an awesome O-Line, and it's all about the chain effect.  Jones running the ball will make our receivers more effective, our TE's more effective, thus, Rex Grossman more effective.

 

I don't know how anyone can say the Lions are going to be better than the Bears, especially when you say that the Bears are unproven, yet somehow the Lions aren't, yet with basically three rooks at three huge positions.  Plus a QB with an aweful QB rating in his career.

Then lets have a friendly bet

 

The Lions will finish better than the Bears this year

[CWSGuy406]

Then lets have a friendly bet

 

The Lions will finish better than the Bears this year

OK - a friendly bet. I'll take that...

[hammerhead johnson]

That's a great example of why we can survive with the receivers that we have now.  Another example is the Chiefs.  Look at their top 3 WR's last year: Johnnie Morton, Eddie Kennison (their leading receiver among WR's), and Donte Hall.

Naah, that's not a good example. The Chiefs offense flows almost entirely through Priest Holmes and Tony Gonzalez. Trent Green is merely an above average fantasy quarterback because he doesn't rack up many yards through the air.

 

EDIT: Scroll down for a more in-depth look at Trent Green's numbers in 2003.

 

And the Patriots receivers are good. I don't care what anyone says. I've seen some crazy s***. That is not strictly Tom Brady working his magic over there. He has some clutch motherf***ers to go to late in games. Anyone who says otherwise probably vegetates throughout the playoff season.

[hammerhead johnson]

The Bears have 8 coaches doing their jobs for the first time.  Plus they essentially have a rookie QB, a twice cast off RB, and a WR core held together with duct tape, that just lost their leader. 

 

I get the feeling the Bears won't win 5 games this year, or win a couple of their last games to get another pick around 10th.

 

This team scares me, and not in a good way.

If I was a gambling man with a lot of money to throw around, I'd bet on the Bears to lose every time and I'd be raking in the dough.

[T R U]

Trent Green is merely an above average fantasy quarterback because he doesn't rack up many yards through the air.

I hope your joking...

 

Trent Green was second in the NFL Last Year with 4039 yards... Ide say thats racking up quite a few

[DBAHO]

I hope your joking...

 

Trent Green was second in the NFL Last Year with 4039 yards... Ide say thats racking up quite a few

Green has one of the best O-Lines in Football. He had an insane running back in Priest Holmes. Trent Green is good, but he's not that good. There's a reason he was traded from St. Louis, and I'd like to see his numbers IF Dick Vermeil wasn't his coach.

[EvilJester99]

There are way too many questions for this season. I don't forsee the Bears being more than maybe 1 game above .500 if they are even above it. This will be more of a learning season than anything else.

[T R U]

Green has one of the best O-Lines in Football. He had an insane running back in Priest Holmes. Trent Green is good, but he's not that good. There's a reason he was traded from St. Louis, and I'd like to see his numbers IF Dick Vermeil wasn't his coach.

That doesnt matter..

 

what was said was he DOESNT put up a lot of passing yards which he does..

 

Trent Green is not overrated either... he is a good QB, I am not saying he is some all pro badass... but to say he is just average is not fair.. The O line may be badass and Holmes may be as well but he still has to make accurate throws and read the defense right..

 

 

There WAS a reason he was traded from St. Louis... his name was MVP Kurt Warner who got to step in when Green was hurt in the preseason.. Why are you gonna keep him around when you have an MVP????

 

It had nothing to do with talent, he was supposed to be starting for St Louis

[hammerhead johnson]

That doesnt matter..

 

what was said was he DOESNT put up a lot of passing yards which he does..

 

Trent Green is not overrated either... he is a good QB, I am not saying he is some all pro badass... but to say he is just average is not fair.. The O line may be badass and Holmes may be as well but he still has to make accurate throws and read the defense right..

 

 

There WAS a reason he was traded from St. Louis... his name was MVP Kurt Warner who got to step in when Green was hurt in the preseason.. Why are you gonna keep him around when you have an MVP????

 

It had nothing to do with talent, he was supposed to be starting for St Louis

Those passing numbers are awfully misleading. Take a look at his game log.

 

VERSUS PITTSBURGH IN WEEK 2: 125 passing yards

IN BALTIMORE IN WEEK 4: 159 passing yards

VERSUS DENVER IN WEEK 5: 129 passing yards

IN OAKLAND IN WEEK 7: 206 passing yards

IN SAN DIEGO IN WEEK 13: 155 passing yards

IN MINNESOTA IN WEEK 16: 224 passng yards

VERSUS CHICAGO IN WEEK 17: 162 passing yards

 

That's 1260 yards passing in those 7 games, the latter four of which were against weak opponents (at least at that particular point in the season, as Minnesota was strong through Week 6 -- best turnover ration in the league)

 

He only had 3 games with over 350+ passing yards on the season....something that Jim Miller did damn near every year when healthy.

 

IN GREEN BAY IN WEEK 6: 400 yards passing

VERSUS CLEVELAND IN WEEK 10: 368 yards passing

IN DENVER IN WEEK 14: 397 yards passing

 

4,000+ passing yards....I just dunno what to say. Sneaky.

 

But I must admit that his 92.6 rating in 2002 AND 2003 (same exact rating...kinda spooky) is pretty damn good. But I still maintain that he's an avove average quarterback or slightly better when you take into account that everyone is 100% focused on stopping Priest.

 

And on a Top 15 NFL quarterbacks list, would Trent Green make it? Perhaps, but barely. I'd put all of these guys ahead of Trent:

 

Manning

McNair

Carr

Pennington

Brady

Plummer

Hasselback

Bulger

Favre

Culpepper

Brooks

Vick

Brunell

McNabb

 

That's 14 guys, so I'll put Trent at #15.

 

Out of 32 teams, that is middle of the pack.

[hammerhead johnson]

By the way, the KC running backs and tight ends accounted for more than 50% of those passing yards. Priest and Gonazlez combined for 1700.

[T R U]

Those passing numbers are awfully misleading.  Take a look at his game log.

 

VERSUS PITTSBURGH IN WEEK 2: 125 passing yards

IN BALTIMORE IN WEEK 4: 159 passing yards

VERSUS DENVER IN WEEK 5: 129 passing yards

IN OAKLAND IN WEEK 7: 206 passing yards

IN SAN DIEGO IN WEEK 13: 155 passing yards

IN MINNESOTA IN WEEK 16: 224 passng yards

VERSUS CHICAGO IN WEEK 17: 162 passing yards

 

That's 1260 yards passing in those 7 games, the latter four of which were against weak opponents (at least at that particular point in the season, as Minnesota was strong through Week 6 -- best turnover ration in the league)

 

He only had 3 games with over 350+ passing yards on the season....something that Jim Miller did damn near every year when healthy.

 

IN GREEN BAY IN WEEK 6: 400 yards passing

VERSUS CLEVELAND IN WEEK 10: 368 yards passing

IN DENVER IN WEEK 14: 397 yards passing

 

4,000+ passing yards....I just dunno what to say.  Sneaky. 

 

But I must admit that his 92.6 rating in 2002 AND 2003 (same exact rating...kinda spooky) is pretty damn good.  But I still maintain that he's an avove average quarterback or slightly better when you take into account that everyone is 100% focused on stopping Priest.

 

And on a Top 15 NFL quarterbacks list, would Trent Green make it?  Perhaps, but barely.  I'd put all of these guys ahead of Trent:

 

Manning

McNair

Carr

Pennington

Brady

Plummer

Hasselback

Bulger

Favre

Culpepper

Brooks

Vick

Brunell

McNabb

 

That's 14 guys, so I'll put Trent at #15.

 

Out of 32 teams, that is middle of the pack.

You cant argue with production... and Trent Green has been one of the top rated passers in the league 2 years in a row now...

 

Sure you can say its misleading because he has Priest and a good OL but I dont see anyone here claiming Peyton Manning is average due to Edge and Marvin Harrison?? How come?

 

How is Bulger any better than Trent Green.. aside from his 22 TD's and 22 INT's he has arguably the best 1,2 combo at WR in Holt and Bruce not to mention Marshall Faulk who consistantly gets over 2,000 combined yards per yer..

 

David Carr... im just gonna laugh that one off and pretend I didnt see you actually say David Carr should be rated ahead of Trent Green.. Maybe in the FUTURE.. but now?? No way..

 

Everyone needs to get off the Michael Vick hype... he is not a good quarterback, he is an amazing ATHELETE... If your going by QB numbers and production Vick would be NOWHERE near the top.. that b**** isnt accurate for s***, but because he can run for 1,000 yards he is automatically a top 15 QB?? Hes got a rocket for an arm and if he can learn how to hit his WR's hes gonna be deadly, but like Carr you cant say he is one of the top QB's yet..

 

Everyone else you have a case for... but Green is definatley top 10 right now.. Numbers dont lie... It doesnt matter how you get them, when you look at the final stats Trent Green was second in the league in yards and had a damn good rating of 92.6, two years in a row mind you..

 

I like how you said "he only had 3 games over 350 passing yards" like its so easy for a QB to go out and throw for 350 yards.. Thats a LOT of yards for one game.. And PLEASE show me where Jim Miller ever threw for over 350 yards a game on a consistant basis because you said...

 

""He only had 3 games with over 350+ passing yards on the season....something that Jim Miller did damn near every year when healthy.""

 

I dont even like KC, but im not gonna take away from Trent Green and say that he is average when he has clearly been more than that throughout his tenure in KC

[T R U]

By the way, the KC running backs and tight ends accounted for more than 50% of those passing yards.  Priest and Gonazlez combined for 1700.

What does that have to do with anything? I mean is it NOT there job to catch passes and play the game of football when the ball is thrown to them??

[hammerhead johnson]

You cant argue with production... and Trent Green has been one of the top rated passers in the league 2 years in a row now...

 

Sure you can say its misleading because he has Priest and a good OL but I dont see anyone here claiming Peyton Manning is average due to Edge and Marvin Harrison?? How come?

 

Huge difference, though. Manning is the #1 facet on that Indianapolis offense, while Trent Green is the #4 facet on KC (after Priest, Gonzalez, and the OL). We're basically comparing the Michael Jordan of quarterbacks to the John Starks of quarterbacks, if you follow what I'm saying.

 

How is Bulger any better than Trent Green.. aside from his 22 TD's and 22 INT's he has arguably the best 1,2 combo at WR in Holt and Bruce not to mention Marshall Faulk who consistantly gets over 2,000 combined yards per yer..

 

You're right, they're like the same dude. They would both be in the latter 20% of that Top 15 list.

 

David Carr... im just gonna laugh that one off and pretend I didnt see you actually say David Carr should be rated ahead of Trent Green.. Maybe in the FUTURE.. but now?? No way..

 

Now here's one that I definitely disagree with. Don't be surprised if Carr wrecks shop this year. Not that I would have to tell a Texan this...I'm sure that you're well aware. This guy has so much talent that it's sick. I'll take him over Green in a heartbeat.

 

Everyone needs to get off the Michael Vick hype... he is not a good quarterback, he is an amazing ATHELETE... If your going by QB numbers and production Vick would be NOWHERE near the top.. that b**** isnt accurate for s***, but because he can run for 1,000 yards he is automatically a top 15 QB?? Hes got a rocket for an arm and if he can learn how to hit his WR's hes gonna be deadly, but like Carr you cant say he is one of the top QB's yet..

 

How could anyone ever concentrate on the Atlanta RBs and WRs when this guy can take off and put up damn near 200 rushing yards in one game like he did against Minnesota not too long ago? He opens things up a bit, and then some. Injuries will shorten his career, but as of right now, in 2004, he's easily a Top 5 quarterback. Easily.

 

Everyone else you have a case for... but Green is definatley top 10 right now.. Numbers dont lie... It doesnt matter how you get them, when you look at the final stats Trent Green was second in the league in yards and had a damn good rating of 92.6, two years in a row mind you..

 

This is NOT what a Sox fan would say. We're still up there in runs scored and home runs and all of that s***, but tell me, aren't those numbers a tad misleading?

 

I like how you said "he only had 3 games over 350 passing yards" like its so easy for a QB to go out and throw for 350 yards.. Thats a LOT of yards for one game.. And PLEASE show me where Jim Miller ever through for over 350 yards a game on a consistant basis because you said...

 

""He only had 3 games with over 350+ passing yards on the season....something that Jim Miller did damn near every year when healthy.""

 

I can remember games where Jim Miller cleared 400 passing yards. That is not bulls***, and you can look it up if you like. The key phrase here is when healthy

 

And yeah, if you're going to make a case for Trent Green's passing prowess, you should have a good amount of games where your numbers are mind-boggling. Not the case for Trent.

 

I dont even like KC, but im not gonna take away from Trent Green and say that he is average when he has clearly been more than that throughout his tenure in KC

 

I have been saying the whole time that Trent is above average, not average. Average is Jon Kitna. Trent is clearly an above average quarterback.

[hammerhead johnson]

What does that have to do with anything? I mean is it NOT there job to catch passes and play the game of football when the ball is thrown to them??

It all revolves around my original point....that offense flows almost entirely through Priest and Gonzalez. A huge percentage of those passing yards started out as a little screen pass to Holmes, or whatever the case may be. You know what I'm saying. Me and you could go in there and throw a little 5 yard pass to Holmes, and then get credit for like a 60 yard gain. Very misleading.

[Yoda]

I just wish the best to my favorite football team.

 

Go Bears!

[CWSGuy406]

Back to the Patriots, for a moment:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling the Pats WRs bums off the street. I'm just saying that they don't have WRs that would really make anyone very scared, like the Terrell Owens/Randy Moss' of the world.

 

I should say that the Pats/Bears WR comparison was poor, as you're comparing proven WRs (or at least Troy Brown is proven) against unproven WRs (all Bears WRs are unproven.). The point I was trying to show was that you don't need world-beaters at the WR position to win a ring.

[YASNY]

I say the Bears do not make the playoffs and here's why. They will lose too many games early as they try and learn the new system installed by Smith. It's going to take time to get it down, especially on the offense side of the ball. Grossman and his receivers have to get to the point that they can just react and not have to think about what they are supposed to be doing and where they are supposed to be.

 

Also, you take this into consideration too. The personel on the Bears. It will take time for Angelo and Smith to replace some of the Jauron type players with players that fit the system Smith is trying to implement. For example, the wide receivers. The Bears used to want the tall strong type receivers like Marcus Robinson and Marty Booker and now the want the speedsters. So, what you have is this. Players who don't fit the system trying to learn and fit into the system.

 

The Bears needed to make a change, no doubt about it. But this new way of thinking and approaching the game is going to take some time. They can't turn over the roster to fit the scheme in one off season. I'm no football expect, but there's my two cents worth.

[DBAHO]

I say the Bears do not make the playoffs and here's why. They will lose too many games early as they try and learn the new system installed by Smith.  It's going to take time to get it down, especially on the offense side of the ball.  Grossman and his receivers have to get to the point that they can just react and not have to think about what they are supposed to be doing and where they are supposed to be.

 

Also, you take this into consideration too.  The personel on the Bears.  It will take time for Angelo and Smith to replace some of the Jauron type players with players that fit the system Smith is trying to implement.  For example, the wide receivers.  The Bears used to want the tall strong type receivers like Marcus Robinson and Marty Booker and now the want the speedsters. So, what you have is this.  Players who don't fit the system trying to learn and fit into the system. 

 

The Bears needed to make a change, no doubt about it.  But this new way of thinking and approaching the game is going to take some time.  They can't turn over the roster to fit the scheme in one off season.  I'm no football expect, but there's my two cents worth.

Agreed. I've got one query on Smith's system on defense too. His cover 2 defense is perfect on turf but will it work well enough on Grass at Soldier Field. This year will be a transition year, you should be happy with a 7-9 record again, but I think you guys will come on strong next season.