southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Does anybody else have a problem using a paper with a website that looks like it was designed by a 12 year old retard as a source? I have more of a problem with a site that doesn't understand baseball's rules dealing with draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I have more of a problem with a site that doesn't understand baseball's rules dealing with draft picks Yeah really. What a bunch of Morons! Looks good doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 $16 mil is a whole lotta change. you couldn't give up that much and pay his whole salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 What do you guys think of Konerko + Crede + Prospect for Johnson? I dunno if they'd take that, but that'd be a nice deal, especially if the prospect wasn't one of Anderson, Sweeney, or Mac. If they wanted to dump salary, they could give us Hillenbrand too - but I'm really in no position to judge the Arizona's stance going into next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 $16 mil is a whole lotta change. you couldn't give up that much and pay his whole salary. Or you could give up something to get $$$ from the D'Backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Looks good doesn't it? You're kidding, right? I'm a guy, so I'm no expert, but that's one thing I've never heard about Randy Johnson. My girlfriend, no big baseball fan, shakes her head every time he comes on the tv. But I still love the idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 :puke :puke :puke :puke Im sure that will make Butter happy, but if are big move this season is getting Eric Milton, im going to be one pist off dude. I agree with you, but you better be prepared to be real pissed off. Milton would in KW eyes as breaking the piggy bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 You're kidding, right? I'm a guy, so I'm no expert, but that's one thing I've never heard about Randy Johnson. My girlfriend, no big baseball fan, shakes her head every time he comes on the tv. But I still love the idea.... I said "it," no "him," jackie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I agree with you, but you better be prepared to be real pissed off. Milton would in KW eyes as breaking the piggy bank. For what the guy is going to get, I have no problem with that. KW will get a big $ pitcher this year. I have a feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I said "it," no "him," jackie. Hey, hey. Okay, if I have a son someday I wouldn't name him Jackie, but let's show some respect for Sox past... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 What do you guys think of Konerko + Crede + Prospect for Johnson? I dunno if they'd take that, but that'd be a nice deal, especially if the prospect wasn't one of Anderson, Sweeney, or Mac. If they wanted to dump salary, they could give us Hillenbrand too - but I'm really in no position to judge the Arizona's stance going into next season. I agree the trade would work if the prospect included was Sweeney, Anderson, or McCarthy. My problem is I don't support foresaking critical pieces of our teams future for a pitcher, even one as dominating as Randy Johnson. Nothing is guaranteed if he were to become a White Sox next season. I understand RJ does gives our team an definite ace, but answer which tangent of players would you rather have: Johnson Grilli Uribe Gload Garland Perez Crede Konerko If JR is willing to take on 13+ million of Johnsons contract (while trading Crede/Konerko), why not sign Perez and keep both? If Sweeney or Anderson are traded who will roam the OF when Lee is gone? If McCarthy is traded, Johnson will have departed after 05 and two SP positions will be vacant. Johnson will earn his money in the playoffs, but Sox won't get there with no 5th starter and the absense of offense Konerko/Crede bring. Who knows what other aspects of the team will become effected because of this trade. Will Williams acquire a legitimate SS FA, or seek a "Gordon-like" setup guy with Johnson's huge salary on the books? There's also another factor of this trade which freightens me. No one guessed Olivo would be included in the Garcia trade, and I'm concerned KW will throw an extra player out of desperation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Hey Ross, if they were dealing Contreras, you mentioned he'd be a good salary dump, then he wouldn't be part of the rotation. They'd probably opt to go with a youngster or wait on the market and find a cheap 5th. However, I think any deal with the Dbacks involving the unit involves Carlos Lee and at least one of the Sox top prospects, plus a good prospect. I don't want to give up Brandon McCarthy, but you can bet thats who the Dbacks would want. I'd think they would want him over Sweeney/Anderson but thats just me. If its Lee, one of Diaz and all them, then I could see the deal making sense. Or of course if they were willing to accept Lee, Contreras, and a prospect, but I don't see that happening. A package of Garland and Lee could be something the Dbacks would look at heavily. If you guys remember correctly, the D-Backs really wanted Rowand at the deadline. My guess is a deal centered around Rowand, Garland, and a prospect would be along the lines of a package the D-Backs might want. The D-Backs will probably pick up a little of his contract or take a bat like Lee/Konerko, but I am pretty sure that they would want young, cheap, major league ready players as the center of any deal. As much as I would like to have Johnson on the Sox, I don't think it is worth it. The FA is very deep when it comes to quality starters, so I think they should go that route. It will probably be cheaper, younger, and the Sox wouldn't have to give up talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Getting randy would be the biggest mistake for a team like the white sox. Teams like the angels, yankee$, red sawks, etc don't really have to worry if the deal works out as much as we would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 At the deadline, AZ said just to START a deal, Rowand and Garland would have to be in the deal, no questions asked. That price would come down a little, based on just 1 more year for RJ, and it was in the heat of the deadline. But I think you UNDERestimate what RJ would command. Maybe I should read the entire thread before I post something that has already been brought up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 If you guys remember correctly, the D-Backs really wanted Rowand at the deadline. My guess is a deal centered around Rowand, Garland, and a prospect would be along the lines of a package the D-Backs might want. The D-Backs will probably pick up a little of his contract or take a bat like Lee/Konerko, but I am pretty sure that they would want young, cheap, major league ready players as the center of any deal. As much as I would like to have Johnson on the Sox, I don't think it is worth it. The FA is very deep when it comes to quality starters, so I think they should go that route. It will probably be cheaper, younger, and the Sox wouldn't have to give up talent. I agree with your points. Good post. It's simple to understand why Arizona would have sights set on Rowand with Gonzalez questionable health/declining defense and Finley's departure last season. KW must turn down any suggestions of trading Aaron. Don't trade young talent unless another team is willing to overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 IIRC, Arizona is going to go after Steve Finley to play CF for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 A few things to consider: 1] Arizona dealt Schilling to Boston for LHP Casey Fossom [had a 5 era with Bost], RHP Brandon Lyon [similar] and two minor leaguers, Jorge De La Rosa [a AA pitcher at the time] and a PTBNL [not sure who it was] AZ got burned on this one. May not want prospects as part of a Randy deal. Though the market value is about par for the course. Just Ariz's scouts got it wrong. Would prob. want a proven hitter or pitcher instead of prospects. 2] Rowand won't be part of any deal. Lee or Garland could be. None of the Sox top prospects would be included [2 guys of the likes of Diaz, Munoz or Borchard could be enough]. I'd go with Lee. 3] Getting an ace like Johnson, at $16 mill for 1 yr might be worth it. Since no FA's out there are locks to be the #1 the Sox need, why get caught signing another #3 SP to a 3, 4 yr deal worth $9 mill per? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 If he commanded anything more than garland id be shocked. He is getting paid 16 million!!!! That is probly what he would be paid if he was in free agency........Meaning we shouldnt have to give up much for paying for FACE VALUE! Arizona isn't just trying to dump salary. They will only trade RJ if they can get premium in return for him. They know he is their only ticket draw right now and aren't going to slap their fans in the face by trading him just to dump his salary. Normal salary considerations in trades most likely will not apply here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 A few things to consider: 1] Arizona dealt Schilling to Boston for LHP Casey Fossom [had a 5 era with Bost], RHP Brandon Lyon [similar] and two minor leaguers, Jorge De La Rosa [a AA pitcher at the time] and a PTBNL [not sure who it was] AZ got burned on this one. May not want prospects as part of a Randy deal. Though the market value is about par for the course. Just Ariz's scouts got it wrong. Would prob. want a proven hitter or pitcher instead of prospects. 2] Rowand won't be part of any deal. Lee or Garland could be. None of the Sox top prospects would be included [2 guys of the likes of Diaz, Munoz or Borchard could be enough]. I'd go with Lee. 3] Getting an ace like Johnson, at $16 mill for 1 yr might be worth it. Since no FA's out there are locks to be the #1 the Sox need, why get caught signing another #3 SP to a 3, 4 yr deal worth $9 mill per? I definitely agree with your last point. None of they guys available in free agency have the ability to totally change a team's chances in a pennant race. Johnson does, even at his advanced age. There will be age and durability issues, but from what he did this year you can see that he is still one of the best. I also agree that there is not that much risk if you can get a decent package since it is only a one year commitment. The cost in trade is a major issue in my book though. I have said before that I do not want to see Lee get traded, I think that he and Frank have to be our 3 and 4 hitters next year(or 3 and 5 if Konerko is still around). I'm torn on Rowand, part of me says we can't trade him at his current price after what he did last year, and part of me says that he might have been a fluke. I definitely don't have a problem seeing Konerko, Crede, or Garland go. I personally would not be crushed if they gave up one of Anderson or Sweeney(preferrably Sweeney in my book), but clearly we can't give up all of these guys in one deal. If we can keep Lee and Rowand and Arizona pays enough cash to still let us add an arm or two in the pen, I'd be thrilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I definitely agree with your last point. None of they guys available in free agency have the ability to totally change a team's chances in a pennant race. Johnson does, even at his advanced age. There will be age and durability issues, but from what he did this year you can see that he is still one of the best. I also agree that there is not that much risk if you can get a decent package since it is only a one year commitment. The cost in trade is a major issue in my book though. I have said before that I do not want to see Lee get traded, I think that he and Frank have to be our 3 and 4 hitters next year(or 3 and 5 if Konerko is still around). I'm torn on Rowand, part of me says we can't trade him at his current price after what he did last year, and part of me says that he might have been a fluke. I definitely don't have a problem seeing Konerko, Crede, or Garland go. I personally would not be crushed if they gave up one of Anderson or Sweeney(preferrably Sweeney in my book), but clearly we can't give up all of these guys in one deal. If we can keep Lee and Rowand and Arizona pays enough cash to still let us add an arm or two in the pen, I'd be thrilled. The cost in trade for a one yr rental should be high but still doable for the sox. If Lee is part of the package, it might be near a swap. Yet having an ace like RJ helps the Sox win in 2005, maybe even 2006, without disrupting the Sox future. But the sox shouldn't include any guys like Sweeney, Anderson, B-Mac or Rowand who fit into the Sox long term plans. Lee doesn't fit with the long term plan of the sox, and maybe not even for 2005. Crede and Garland will prob. be given another yr at least w/ the Sox. Crede esp. as he's dirt cheap. Jon might not with a $3 mill price tag. Yet both may have a long term future w/ the Sox. Schilling's cost was high, but he was signed for I think 2 yrs. RJ's deal might be even less than Schilling's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Are you for real? He still might win the Cy Young this year, and if he would have been on a team that was MABYE about .500 there is no doubt he wins the Cy young. Have you seen his numbers this season? Yeah, their is also no doubt he will do the same next year...why take a risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Yeah, their is also no doubt he will do the same next year...why take a risk? Because maybe we want to win a f***ing World Series in SOMEONE'S lifetime? Just look at his numbers since he has been in Arizona. With the exception of 2003(knee problems,) he has been amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 You (an I'm referring to those who don't want to trade any of our top 3 prospects) don't get it. A prospect does not necessarily mean being part of our future plans. If starting and keeping your prospects meant success then bad teams would become good and good teams would become bad. Would I trade a guy who is doing well at AA for Randy Johnson? Yes. I will trade a guy who could be good for a guy that I know has won 6 CY. I want a championship and Randy Johnson brings us closer to one than keeping Brandon McCarthy or Ryan Sweeney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 A few things to consider: 1] Arizona dealt Schilling to Boston for LHP Casey Fossom [had a 5 era with Bost], RHP Brandon Lyon [similar] and two minor leaguers, Jorge De La Rosa [a AA pitcher at the time] and a PTBNL [not sure who it was] AZ got burned on this one. May not want prospects as part of a Randy deal. Though the market value is about par for the course. Just Ariz's scouts got it wrong. Would prob. want a proven hitter or pitcher instead of prospects. 2] Rowand won't be part of any deal. Lee or Garland could be. None of the Sox top prospects would be included [2 guys of the likes of Diaz, Munoz or Borchard could be enough]. I'd go with Lee. 3] Getting an ace like Johnson, at $16 mill for 1 yr might be worth it. Since no FA's out there are locks to be the #1 the Sox need, why get caught signing another #3 SP to a 3, 4 yr deal worth $9 mill per? With this in mind, I could really see this being a possible trade for them: Konerko + Crede + Diaz and/or Munoz + Low Level Prospect (PTBNL) for Johnson, with us eating all of RJ's contract, them eat Konerko's (if that makes any sense). I know there's a chance that Kenny can get burned on a deal like this, but think of all the plus sides. Season ticket sales would go pretty high after a deal like this; plus, we'd finally have a true ace on this team. Not a number one/two guy, a real stopper. Hell, Buehrle as your number three? That's f***in' awesome. A couple untouchables (IMHO) in (besides the obvious guys) Lee, Rowand, McCarthy, Anderson, and Sweeney. Damn, this is gonna be won fun offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Wait, what? I believe what Knuckle was trying to say that there's no certainty that Randy will do the same this season, which really doesn't make a lot of sense, but - just trying to clear that up. A healthy Randy Johnson for a whole season will give us 18+ wins, with, at most, a 3.50 ERA. (*I shouldn't be implying that I think he'd stay healthy for all of the season - there'd probably be some bumps along the way...*) I also agree with what beck72 said in that Big Unit will probably cost less than Schilling, mainly because a.)Schilling was 37-38 when they made the trade; Johnson will be what, 41? b.)This is Johnson's last year on the contract, and if a team is willing to eat most of the contract, the lesser prospect/people we'll have to give up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.