Offer Made For Randy Johnson

[DBAHO]

I've already posted the number of win each pitcher can potentially win.  If Grilli or Diaz could win just 4-6 games, and Johnson could win 20-22, a free agent pitcher would have to win 13-14 games just to match that total.

 

I'm not convinced that this organization will give a FA pitcher a Multiyear deal.  I would like to see Odalis Perez play for the Sox, but he's not going to sign a one year deal.

We've locked up Buerhle, Garcia and Contreras for the next 2 to 3 years. Don't forget Randy Johnson in 2003, only won about 11 games I think, and was dogged with injuries. This trade could backfire on us bigtime. And what if we don't even make the playoffs?

[Wanne]

But, I have a feeling Anderson would be included. He went to ASU (I think) and plays CF which is a position the DBacks need. I think that would be overpaying for 1 year of Johnson. And I have to think McCarthy is possibly included as well (or instead of Anderson), since AZ would want young pitching.

Anderson went to UofA...not ASU. I could see the DBacks making a deal as long as the get hometown boy Konerko back purely for a PR move...as well as trying to get Anderson. I wouldn't give up Anderson though.

[Bob Saccamano]

Ok let's break down this trade:

Paul Konerko: Fan Favorite. Good Power hitter who hit 40+ Hr’s. Debatable if he is the teams MVP of the year. BUT: Horrible on the road. Too many DP’s. SLOW. Not a good fielder and Last year of contract.

Garland: Young, consistently average, possibility to break out. A solid #5 pitcher. BUT: Headcase (when/if ever will he be as good as we thought.) Also a free-agent after this season.

And a prospect

 

We get

Randy Johnson. Ok let me type that again. RANDY JOHNSON. Has it sunk in yet. The Big Unit. Mr. 300 K’s a year. Ok back to the debate.

Why would a team pass up on a trade like this. EVERY TEAM IN BASEBALL WANTS RANDY JOHNSON ON THEIR TEAM. I wander why? Because he is a dominating pitcher. He will win you close to 20 games a year if not more.

Here is another question that people should think about….who would you want to have starting game 7 of the world series if you were a manager. I bet the majority will say RANDY JOHNSON…that’s right. He is a guy that ends loosing streaks, that wins the big games, that DOMINATES an opponent. And why we don’t want him.

 

So we loose 2 rent a players and a prospect for an ace. (Which many Sox fans have been b****ing about.) People will say what about his age, his health, or what if Garland breaks out. I say this. It is a coin toss. I like my chances with Randy Johnson than with Paul and JG. Randy gives us an Ace that has a lot better shot at winning 20 games than JG and gives us the best starting 3 maybe 4 in baseball. Now that leaves the dread 5 hole. But again, I like my odds with Johnson+Grilli, then FA (IF WE FORK OVER MUCHO DINERO FOR AN ACE but most likely settle for a 3 or 4 type pitcher)+Garland.

 

I say pull the trigger. Welcome to Chicago Randy

[qwerty]

Not a good fielder.

I do not agree with that at all, but anyway welcome to soxtalk.

[Bob Saccamano]

I do not agree with that at all, but anyway welcome to soxtalk.

Ok maybe not a bad fielder, but horrible range. How many times have I seen a ground ball sneek through the infield that a 1B with at least decent range would have fielded.

[qwerty]

Ok maybe not a bad fielder, but horrible range.  How many times have I seen a ground ball sneek through the infield that a 1B with at least decent range would have fielded.

Now that i can agree with, but he sucks up everything that is at him and is a pretty good throwing first baseman.

 

By the way, are a mod at pro sports daily?

[DBAHO]

Ok let's break down this trade:

Paul Konerko:  Fan Favorite.  Good Power hitter who hit 40+ Hr’s.  Debatable if he is the teams MVP of the year.  BUT:  Horrible on the road.  Too many DP’s. SLOW. Not a good fielder and Last year of contract.

Garland:  Young, consistently average, possibility to break out.  A solid #5 pitcher.  BUT: Headcase (when/if ever will he be as good as we thought.) Also a free-agent after this season.

And a prospect

 

We get

Randy Johnson.  Ok let me type that again. RANDY JOHNSON.  Has it sunk in yet.  The Big Unit.  Mr. 300 K’s a year.  Ok back to the debate.

Why would a team pass up on a trade like this.  EVERY TEAM IN BASEBALL WANTS RANDY JOHNSON ON THEIR TEAM.  I wander why?  Because he is a dominating pitcher.  He will win you close to 20 games a year if not more. 

Here is another question that people should think about….who would you want to have starting game 7 of the world series if you were a manager.  I bet the majority will say RANDY JOHNSON…that’s right.  He is a guy that ends loosing streaks, that wins the big games, that DOMINATES an opponent.  And why we don’t want him.

 

So we loose 2 rent a players and a prospect for an ace.  (Which many Sox fans have been b****ing about.)  People will say what about his age, his health, or what if Garland breaks out.  I say this.  It is a coin toss.  I like my chances with Randy Johnson than with Paul and JG.  Randy gives us an Ace that has a lot better shot at winning 20 games than JG and gives us the best starting 3 maybe 4 in baseball.  Now that leaves the dread 5 hole.  But again, I like my odds with Johnson+Grilli, then FA (IF WE FORK OVER MUCHO DINERO FOR AN ACE but most likely settle for a 3 or 4 type pitcher)+Garland.

 

I say pull the trigger.  Welcome to Chicago Randy

Ok let's say we do this deal. We'd be getting Randy Johnson for 3 or 4 players.

What if though, we trade Konerko and Carl Everett plus $1 or $2 mill to the O's for Larry Bigbie, Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jorge Julio. We can then trade Carlos Lee, Willie Harris, and a prospect or 2 not named McCarthy, Anderson or Sweeney for Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes. Eventually we'd be getting Hariston, Bigbie, Julio, Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes for about 4 or 5 players, with only 2 who are all - star material. Your lineup would then look like this,

 

2B - Jerry Hairston Jr.

SS - Omar Vizquel

LF - Eric Byrnes

DH - Frank Thomas

1B - Ross Gload

CF - Aaron Rowand

RF - Larry Bigbie

3B - Joe Crede

C - Ben Davis or Jamie Burke

Utility man - Juan Uribe

 

Rotation

#1 - Tim Hudson

#2 - Mark Buerhle

#3 - Freddy Garcia

#4 - Jose Contreras

#5 - Jon Garland

 

Bullpen

Neal Cotts

Jon Adkins

Cliff Politte

Damaso Marte

Felix Diaz

Shingo Takatsu

Jorge Julio

 

Also, could Randy Johnson put up 300 K's. He very well could. But there's a big risk of him getting injured, and not pitching for us much at all. Frankly, I don't think we can take that chance when we're giving up a lot.

[qwerty]

Ok let's say we do this deal. We'd be getting Randy Johnson for 3 or 4 players.

What if though, we trade Konerko and Carl Everett plus $1 or $2 mill to the O's for Larry Bigbie, Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jorge Julio. We can then trade Carlos Lee, Willie Harris, and a prospect or 2 not named McCarthy, Anderson or Sweeney for Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes. Eventually we'd be getting Hariston, Bigbie, Julio, Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes for about 4 or 5 players, with only 2 who are all - star material. Your lineup would then look like this,

 

2B - Jerry Hairston Jr.

SS - Omar Vizquel

LF - Eric Byrnes

DH - Frank Thomas

1B - Ross Gload

CF - Aaron Rowand

RF - Larry Bigbie

3B - Joe Crede

C - Ben Davis or Jamie Burke

Utility man - Juan Uribe

 

Rotation

#1 - Tim Hudson

#2 - Mark Buerhle

#3 - Freddy Garcia

#4 - Jose Contreras

#5 - Jon Garland

 

Bullpen

Neal Cotts

Jon Adkins

Cliff Politte

Damaso Marte

Felix Diaz

Shingo Takatsu

Jorge Julio

 

Also, could Randy Johnson put up 300 K's. He very well could. But there's a big risk of him getting injured, and not pitching for us much at all. Frankly, I don't think we can take that chance when we're giving up a lot.

I just got sticky.

[DBAHO]

I just got sticky.  

I don't know if the O's would take Everett, it would depend on what they do with Jay Gibbons, and whether or not they non - tender him or not, even though he hit over .300 in his last 33 games or so. Also, if I'm Billy Beane, I probably ask for more for Hudson, but that's been a rumored deal with Lee or Konerko, and the A's do have payroll problems. But Beane should really lock up Hudson out of the big 3. Mulder's got chronic hip problems and Zito needs Rick Peterson ASAP.

[qwerty]

I don't know if the O's would take Everett, it would depend on what they do with Jay Gibbons, and whether or not they non - tender him or not, even though he hit over .300 in his last 33 games or so. Also, if I'm Billy Beane, I probably ask for more for Hudson, but that's been a rumored deal with Lee or Konerko, and the A's do have payroll problems. But Beane should really lock up Hudson out of the big 3. Mulder's got chronic hip problems and Zito needs Rick Peterson ASAP.

Gibbons will be non-tendered, really seems like the way it is heading anyway. I was reading some where that he may be non-tendered as early as this week.

[DBAHO]

Gibbons will be non-tendered, really seems like the way it is heading anyway. I was reading some where that he may be non-tendered as early as this week.

Well the O's have a lot of options there as well, so who knows. I found this on him as well.

As the game's revenues increase, one agent believes that clubs will be more hesitant to part with reasonably productive arbitration-eligible players. Orioles right fielder Jay Gibbons, 27, is one such example. Coming off a 23-homer, 100-RBI campaign in 2003, he regressed last season, in part due to injuries. But he batted .330 over his last 31 games and the Orioles control him for two more seasons. It might be better to give him one more chance and pay him $4 million-plus in arbitration than lose him for nothing ...

Also another deal I had come to mind was one with the Expos, where possibly Konerko and / or Lee could go for some sort of package include parts such as Nick Johnson, Brad Wilkerson and Zach Day. We'd have to include some prospects though, but Washinton have been rumored to be wanting to make a big splash in FA and trade talks, and all of those players COULD be available for the right price.

[qwerty]

Well the O's have a lot of options there as well, so who knows. I found this on him as well.

 

Also another deal I had come to mind was one with the Expos, where possibly Konerko and / or Lee could go for some sort of package include parts such as Nick Johnson, Brad Wilkerson and Zach Day. We'd have to include some prospects though, but Washinton have been rumored to be wanting to make a big splash in FA and trade talks, and all of those players COULD be available for the right price.

Wilkerson is my favorite player not on the sox. I have said it several times that he is gonna explode in the next year or two. Can you imagine the numbers he would put up here? All that i know is they would be sick. If we got any two of the three you mentioned it would make me one happy person.

[beck72]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/basebal...sports-baseball

 

 

What a horrible trade in my opinion.

As long as the prospects were mid level guys, this trade would be a good one for the sox. Randy Johnson won't come cheap to any team. Yet the sox have Gload for 1B, and Johnson takes over for Garland. Both PK and Jon will be FA's after 2005. Most likely, both wouldn't be on the 2006 sox roster. Say Jon does have a breakout yr, [18 wins, less than a 4 era] would people want to sign Garland to a long term big money contract, at 7 mill+ a yr, with all his past inconsistencies?! I wouldn't. Jon may break out, yet I think he's more likely to be a solid #4 or #5 who can eat innings. This is still valuable, but not when the sox have the chance to get the premier SP in baseball.

 

Johnson's thrown 240+ innings in 6 of the last 7 yrs. [with his knee injury in 2003 limiting him]. The guy has shown he's a workhorse, even at 41. He would give the Sox what they need: a #1 SP, a strikeout pitcher, who doesn't walk a lot of guys, and someone who can go 7 innings w/o breaking a sweat. He likely has 2 yrs left. Even if the sox had him for one yr [which if RJ OK'd a trade to the Sox, why wouldn't he resign if he wanted to still pitch] this deal would be worth Jon and PK. The risk of injury is there. But it's there for PK and Jon as well. Say the worst happens and RJ gos down, the sox would still have Gload for 1B and a SP who could likely give the Sox what Garland could--12 wins and a 4.88 era. It would hurt. But it wouldn't be devastating. [and after the Maggs and Frank injuries, the Sox will better prepare their roster to win games in case key guys do go down for the season--getting more contact hitters, better defense to stay competitive]

 

As for the hole at #5---there would be a lot of options here to choose from. Guys who can give the Sox innings and a 4.88 ERA are out there for non-guaranteed 1 yr deals worth $1 mill a yr. until B-Mac or Honel are ready. But the 1-4 SP's could compete with any team out there. And would be set up nicely for a short playoff series, with RJ starting game 1.

[beck72]

It comes down to Johnson/Gload versus Garland/Konerko, and I would take my chances with the 1st option, because pitching is much more valuable

Well put. As long as the sox don't include one of their top prospects, this deal is about the 2005 Sox, not the future. And RJ/ Gload improves the Sox much more than PK/ Jon.

[beck72]

Another thing to consider, few teams will give up their top prospects for RJ. Getting and trading proven major leaguers makes sense. For RJ's $17 mill, they could get PK [$8 mill], Garland [$3 mill], + have $6 mill to spend on other holes. That scenario makes ARiz. more competitive than getting a few prospects who likely are a few yrs away from the bigs.

[redandwhite]

Ok let's say we do this deal. We'd be getting Randy Johnson for 3 or 4 players.

What if though, we trade Konerko and Carl Everett plus $1 or $2 mill to the O's for Larry Bigbie, Jerry Hairston Jr. and Jorge Julio. We can then trade Carlos Lee, Willie Harris, and a prospect or 2 not named McCarthy, Anderson or Sweeney for Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes. Eventually we'd be getting Hariston, Bigbie, Julio, Tim Hudson and Eric Byrnes for about 4 or 5 players, with only 2 who are all - star material. Your lineup would then look like this,

 

2B - Jerry Hairston Jr.

SS - Omar Vizquel

LF - Eric Byrnes

DH - Frank Thomas

1B - Ross Gload

CF - Aaron Rowand

RF - Larry Bigbie

3B - Joe Crede

C - Ben Davis or Jamie Burke

Utility man - Juan Uribe

 

Rotation

#1 - Tim Hudson

#2 - Mark Buerhle

#3 - Freddy Garcia

#4 - Jose Contreras

#5 - Jon Garland

 

Bullpen

Neal Cotts

Jon Adkins

Cliff Politte

Damaso Marte

Felix Diaz

Shingo Takatsu

Jorge Julio

 

Also, could Randy Johnson put up 300 K's. He very well could. But there's a big risk of him getting injured, and not pitching for us much at all. Frankly, I don't think we can take that chance when we're giving up a lot.

A line-up that weak would make anyone sick to there stomach. Byrnes in the three hole, no thanks.

 

And how all you people are saying Gload will replace Konerko with ease, I really want to know why you think that.

 

This line-up would be lucky to place out of the last 5 worst run producing offenses in baseball.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

This would be worse then the Todd Ritchie trade.

We would be insuring having Jason Girilli as a 5th starter (who will have 2-5 wins if we are lucky).

Johnson will win about 15 games max (he will be hurt a portion of the season at some point. So we are trading an innings eater guarunteed to win at least 12 games for a guy who we will need to give up our entire offense for (we wouldn't be able to afford to sign him otherwise.)

It's stupid to trade away so much for a 40+ year old pitcher. You can sign a free agent and win those 15 games for a hell of alot less money.

[greasywheels121]

Losing PK doesn't bother me, but JG does....

 

We're not doing much for ourselves there...We still only have a 4 man rotation. I'd like to get that RJ type guy maintaining everyone in our rotation right now. I want Garland to be our 5.

[beck72]

And how all you people are saying Gload will replace Konerko with ease, I really want to know why you think that.

Gload was given extended time at 1B and performed. His OBP improved, and hit LHp and RHP, and did well in RBI situations. He showed better defense than PK as well. Will he hit .320 for the year? No. But can he hit .280 and make contact, hustle and play good d, almost certainly yes. Gload has always hit in the minors, if you look up his stats. It's a good gamble that Gload could perform well with the Sox. While he won't replace PK's power, Gload could give the Sox what many fans have been seeking to diversify the Sox RH power hitting, slow running team: a LH hitting, good glove ala JT Snow.

 

1b is one of the easier spots to fill, should Gload tank, esp. midseason trades. If it would mean getting RJ [#1 SP's are hard to find during the year, look at what it took to get Freddy] by all means, trade PK.

[beck72]

This would be worse then the Todd Ritchie trade.

We would be insuring having Jason Girilli as a 5th starter (who will have 2-5 wins if we are lucky).

Johnson will win about 15 games max (he will be hurt a portion of the season at some point. So we are trading an innings eater guarunteed to win at least 12 games for a guy who we will need to give up our entire offense for (we wouldn't be able to afford to sign him otherwise.)

It's stupid to trade away so much for a 40+ year old pitcher. You can sign a free agent and win those 15 games for a hell of alot less money.

PK and JG probably wouldn't be on the 2006 Sox. Comparing this proposed Randy Johnson trade to the Todd Ritchie trade is preposterous. Wells' upside was unproven. JG's upside probably has been proven. Also, Johnson is a BIT more proven than Todd Ritchie

 

Would you propose signing JG to long term deal after this yr worth $7 mill a yr should he do what you think he'll do, 12 wins and 200 innings, if the Sox kept him? I know I wouldn't.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

By the way it's not that i'm some Garland lover.

Hell I'm as frustrated with him as anyone. However i'm not stupid enough to trade him away when 1. We can't find a 5th starter to save our lives and 2. He is almost Guarunteed to stay on pace to win 12 games at least. Maybe he even win's 15 + games.

However the point is that the alternative is a rotation of Johnson and Girilli. He we were the Yankees then I'd say sure go for it but we aren't! We can't afford to put all of our eggs in one basket. If he goes off and hurts himself then we would be totally screwed. Then our rotation is Diaz and Girilli.

All you Johnson lovers are taking a huge gamble with our chances next year. Especially since we'd be stuck with an offense barely able to produce or score runs (we couldn't sign any other players)

[3E8]

This would be worse then the Todd Ritchie trade.

We would be insuring having Jason Girilli as a 5th starter (who will have 2-5 wins if we are lucky).

Johnson will win about 15 games max (he will be hurt a portion of the season at some point. So we are trading an innings eater guarunteed to win at least 12 games for a guy who we will need to give up our entire offense for (we wouldn't be able to afford to sign him otherwise.)

It's stupid to trade away so much for a 40+ year old pitcher. You can sign a free agent and win those 15 games for a hell of alot less money.

Hey Jeckle, we agree on something!

 

With the free agent starting pitching on the market right now, I think this trade sucks.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

PK and JG probably wouldn't be on the 2006 Sox. Comparing this proposed Randy Johnson trade to the Todd Ritchie trade is preposterous. Wells' upside was unproven. JG's upside probably has been proven. Also, Johnson is a BIT more proven than Todd Ritchie

 

Would you propose signing JG to long term deal after this yr worth $7 mill a yr should he do what you think he'll do, 12 wins and 200 innings, if the Sox kept him? I know I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't want to sign Garland after next year.

But he still is a decent starter now and i'm not winning to gamble our whole season on Randy Johnson's health and Jason Grilli.

[southsider2k5]

Wow. This is a tough one. On the one hand, this is a #1 starter we are talking about. This isn't a guy who could lead a team to the World Series, this is a guy who has led his team to a World Championship. When he is healthy, he is one of the best big game pitchers in all of baseball. It would be a steep price to pay, but do you go for it, or do you wait with the possibility of losing PK and Garland for nothing anyway.

 

I gotta say, I would do this deal. You have got to try to seize the day. You have got to try to take this town back from the Cubs. You have got to try to win it all. Even if PK and Garland have breakouts, there is no guarentee that the Sox could have resigned them anyway, and the most important thing to me, is that we are getting the best player in the deal.

[Butter Parque]

Why don't they offer this deal without the prospects included for Tim Hudson. At least he's only 29.