striker Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 We could meet 2 of our 3 needs (starting pitcher and leadoff hitter) by taking Brown and Lofton off the Yankee's hands. I'm sure the Yankees would pay at least 50% of Brown's salary (it's a contract year for him so I'm sure he'll dominate) and supposedly the Yankees want to get rid of Lofton too. We could probably get both of them for next to nothing too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Lofton part due? No thanks.... Kevin Brown for some prospects???? I can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 NO thank you on Brown.. The only Yankee pitcher I want is Vaquez. Name the last year brown made it through a complete season with out an injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 2003............................ .. My bad, I thought for sure it was 2001. Sorry Still to injury prone for my liking. Vaquez is 6 mil cheaper than Brown, and younger with better stuff. That 6 can be used for the SS and OF we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Let it be known, I was the first to prophesize that Brown will be on the roster in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Let it be known, I was the first to prophesize that Brown will be on the roster in 2005. And welcome the Cleveland Indians to the title of Divsion champs... If Brown is on the roster.. will not make 25 starts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 i think a lot of people are going to overate cleveland this coming year could it be that some of them just had career years?.... The only guys that i think are for real on that team is hafner and victor martinez and pitching wise sabathia other then that i think a lot of those guys over achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 i think a lot of people are going to overate cleveland this coming year could it be that some of them just had career years?.... The only guys that i think are for real on that team is hafner and victor martinez and pitching wise sabathia other then that i think a lot of those guys over achieved. If anything the indians players will get better not worse I don't think last year was a fluke at all. They have one of the better young cores in baseball in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I actaully do agree with you that Brown is becoming injury prone in his old age, BUT, I for one am not against having Brown on the team. The Sox are now in the situation of having to take some risk on some guys, basically banking on a good season. Brown is a perfect case. It wouldnt take THAT MUCH to get Brown IMO, and if he were to have a 2003 season,(only won 14, but had a 2.39 ERA, 185K/56BB) then obviously it could pay off big time. I would also be very happy with Vazquez, but right now, Sox have to roll the dice. I still say the sox need to play this one the smart way.. And in the long term Vaquez is the smart money. THink about it, going into the next 3 years with the Roation of Marky Freddy Vaquez Contreas Garland I be happy to know that going into next years offseason that all we need to look for are hitters, which are easy to find, playing in coors lite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 And welcome the Cleveland Indians to the title of Divsion champs... If Brown is on the roster.. will not make 25 starts... Vasquez may only make four starts next year. So what is your point? Every single player in sports can get injured, they are not immune to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 If anything the indians players will get better nto worse I don't think last year was a fluke at all. They have one of the better young cores in baseball in my opinion. For once we agree, Cleveland is a pitcher or 2 away from being very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I could see Cleveland struggling. Cliff Lee was awful after that big start. I think their lineup is good but they really could use a veteran bat in the middle of the order. Ironically, they had this with Thome. Their bats could easily go quiet in a playoff series without that experienced presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AddisonStSox Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Not to change the topic, but what should we expect from Contreras next season. I think a lot of us take for granted the fact that he was not really brilliant on the Southside last year. Yeah, he had some great starts, but I hope he can produce #4 starter numbers in 05'. IMO, he remains the biggest question mark in our rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I could see Cleveland struggling. Cliff Lee was awful after that big start. I think their lineup is good but they really could use a veteran bat in the middle of the order. Ironically, they had this with Thome. Their bats could easily go quiet in a playoff series without that experienced presence. I agree with you on their pitching, but their offense is just about as potent as any other team in baseball. Wait another year or two and they are gonna be dangerous as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Not to change the topic, but what should we expect from Contreras next season. I think a lot of us take for granted the fact that he was not really brilliant on the Southside last year. Yeah, he had some great starts, but I hope he can produce #4 starter numbers in 05'. IMO, he remains the biggest question mark in our rotation. 4.50 era, honestly. He will look brillant at times and then others he just looks lost out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 I would never take a risk on Kevin Brown. I hate bad contracts, examples like Magglio and Everetts to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Kevin Brown has a blanket no-trade clause. He will veto any trade to the White Sox. I see him in New York or Atlanta next year, and no where else. I do not like Vazquez, not in USCF. At the right price, with the Yankees taking on a ton of his salary and with us missing out on RJ, Perez, a healthy Clement, Radke, and others probably too, then yes, I'd take him. I just do not like his GO-AO ratio whatsoever, and he'd be asked to come in here and have a very important role in our rotation. If I knew he would have a Freddy Garcia like transformation, where adjusts to his condition properly(Garcia had a GO-AO ratio of about .99 in Seattle, and it was around 1.10-1.20 in Chicago), then I'd take him as well. As for Contreras...I agree with qwerty, unless somehow he just magically finds some control and consistency and something clicks inside. He's gonna be our Esteban Loaiza of 2005...which Esteban we get is something we'll have to wait and see. I have no idea what to think about regarding Cleveland. I look at them and I see a lot of things...I see an offense that just broke out and became one of the best in the league, I saw a pitching staff that became one of the better staffs in the league, and I saw one of the worst bullpens in the league, which is the exact opposite of what I saw in 2003 from the Indians(when their offense and rotation were mediocre, but their bullpen was their strong point). I also saw a lot of guys either play over their heads in 2004, or I saw them play to their full potential(or both perhaps)...Vizquel had a nice bounce back year, Lawton actually stayed healthy, Belliard busted out and had a huge year, Casey Blake hit about .280 30 100 year or so, Hafner hit the hell out of the ball, Victor Martinez put up excellent numbers, and there were others too. I'm afraid that they could be very, very good next year...but I do not rule out them having a regression this year either. I will say that I do not envision them having a .500 year...they will either win around 85-90 games, or they'll win 70-75 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 IMO, right now the biggest ? mark is the 5th starter spot, but thats a whole nother topic. Contreas is a huge ? mark though, you are right. You cant really say what to expect, becasue his short MLB carrer has been nothing short of inconsistant. I that one day the light goes on in his head on how to pitch, because he has the stuff to win 20 games IMO. Man - If the light clicked on with Contreras, we'd have one hell of a pitcher on our hands... If he could pitch well for even 75% of the season, we'd have a pitcher who'd give us 200+ innings, (most likely) a sub-3 ERA, a s***load of strikeouts... Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Man - If the light clicked on with Contreras, we'd have one hell of a pitcher on our hands... If he could pitch well for even 75% of the season, we'd have a pitcher who'd give us 200+ innings, (most likely) a sub-3 ERA, a s***load of strikeouts... Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen... While i agree with you, i still don't know how i feel about trading for him at the deadline. I think i would rather go after another pitcher in the off-season instead. I just hope contreras pans out for us. Anything less than a 4.50 era i will honestly be happy with because i have low expectations for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 While i agree with you, i still don't know how i feel about trading for him at the deadline. I think i would rather go after another pitcher in the off-season instead. I just hope contreras pans out for us. Anything less than a 4.50 era i will honestly be happy with because i have low expectations for him. But with Contreras, his ERA really doesn't, or won't, tell you the whole story. He'll have games where he'll go into the eight strong innings, giving up no runs or one run. Then, there will be those games where he'll barely make it out of the second inning. He's a total question mark. Like I said in a thread a while back, he was the only (starting) pitcher on our staff to have a better ERA at home than on the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 We could meet 2 of our 3 needs (starting pitcher and leadoff hitter) by taking Brown and Lofton off the Yankee's hands. I'm sure the Yankees would pay at least 50% of Brown's salary (it's a contract year for him so I'm sure he'll dominate) and supposedly the Yankees want to get rid of Lofton too. We could probably get both of them for next to nothing too. What's the Lofton Hard on? Really to give Lofton Money would rather Give Andres Torres a Shot. Or Heck Brian Anderson. Say no to Lofton. Brown could cost nothing and the Yanks are willing to pick up the Tab. That's the only way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 But with Contreras, his ERA really doesn't, or won't, tell you the whole story. He'll have games where he'll go into the eight strong innings, giving up no runs or one run. Then, there will be those games where he'll barely make it out of the second inning. He's a total question mark. Like I said in a thread a while back, he was the only (starting) pitcher on our staff to have a better ERA at home than on the road... Well one reason he had a better era at home than on the road because he was so very bad on the road. Still is a pretty small sample size in my opinion. But i hope you are right. He just has to get much more consistent and learn how to pitch out of the stretch without walking five guys in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Honestly I think Contreras will improve greatly in his first full year away from the Yankees. The guy has talent and he has the whole offseason to work under a new staff with a strong latin influence. Not only that but some of you are missing an important factor. He has absolutely no pressure on him. He has become an after thought among most Sox fans and I think thats great. Without the constant media attention I think that he's going to only improve. Lets all just hope i'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Adding on to Jeckle's sentiments, he'll also have one offseason behind him in which is whole family will have had been with him, rather than back in Cuba. If Contreras is going to have any type of major league success, this upcoming year is definitely the right time to do it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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