About the $22 mil, I don't get that at all. If he really wants to retire, he should just do so. All this could do imo is stir up resentment in Houston. He can't want to leave that way.

 

Looking at the stats, I have to say that I'm convinced Clemens is top-10, maybe top-5. His era+ and k numbers were great, and he was durable and reliable beyond most any pitcher that I can think of. A lot depends on how you rate durability -- that'll make or break Koufax and Pedro. (Incidentally, all-time best era+? Pedro, and by a LOT.) Also I'm not sure how you look at dead ball pitchers. Everyone agrees that Walter Johnson was incredible, how do you rank Ed Walsh though?

Yeah I was looking at Maddux's numbers and around 94-95 he was just completely ridiculous.

 

273 and 259...Maddux's ERA+ in 94 and 95 respecfully.

That just blows my mind.

Its impossible to do numbers comparisions based on different generations.  I look more at how a pitcher stands out of his own group.  That's why Greg Maddux is on my list.  His numbers are so much better than just about anyone of this generation.

I'd say Pedro bests him, except in durability. But if Koufax has a spot on the list, I think Pedro's got a legitimate gripe.

I'd say Pedro bests him, except in durability.  But if Koufax has a spot on the list, I think Pedro's got a legitimate gripe.

 

Koufax withotu a doubt has the best five year time span of any pitcher to ever play the game. But i don't know if i can put him on the top 10 list. His years before his last five while good, were not great for that time frame.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jan 18, 2005 -> 06:43 PM)

Off the top of my head...

 

Nolan Ryan

Cy Young

Sandy Kofax

Christy Mathewson

Walter Johnson

Warren Spahn

Steve Carlton

Tom Seaver

Randy Johnson

I would have also put Pedro and Greg Maddux ahead of him from this generation on a career basis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Where on earth is Bob Gibson on that list. He has to be at least 10th. He's ahead of Johnson for sure.

I applaud him for this move. It isn't a matter of is he worth 22 mil, it's which number is closer to being correct, the $13.5 the Astros offered or the $22 mil that Clemens picked? The arbiter has those two choices. I love it. Pedro signed for what $17.5 per year? If the Astros had picked something like $15 mil they would win, $13.5 is a bit of a low ball.

 

So if you are the arbiter which offer is more correct? The Astros low ball or the player's pie in the sky. Two bad numbers.

That's very debatable.

Clemens=more wins, K's

RJ=better ERA

If you look at their career's as a whole, I'd have to say Roger has been a little better and the best of this generation, however if I had to pick a guy to pitch one game there are a couple of guys I'd pick before roger such as Pedro, Rj and Maddux, good debate though.

Where on earth is Bob Gibson on that list. He has to be at least 10th. He's ahead of Johnson for sure.

 

 

i can say with a straight face that you would think aaron rowand should be on the top 10 pitchers list too... RJ is definitely a top 10 pitcher enough said.

Koufax withotu a doubt has the best five year time span of any pitcher to ever play the game. But i don't know if i can put him on the top 10 list. His years before his last five while good, were not great for that time frame.

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking Koufax, his best years are a standard. Maybe b/c of personal prejudice, I'd still put him in my personal top-10. (Nolan Ryan wouldn't even be very close.) I think Pedro's career is about the closest thing we have to that nowadays, w/ 5-man rotations and the care shown w/ pitch counts. No 300-inning seasons, sure, but even our iron man Halladay didn't manage that last season. But if limited brilliance should be considered, Pedro has to be considered alongside Maddux.

 

Incidentally, he's also EASILY the best Dominican player in recent years... :sosasucks

 

(At least until Pujols gets a couple more years under his belt...)

No love for Garland?

Not that this really pertains to the subject(well, it does a little...but it is not like right on topic), I just wanna say how incredible Steve Carlton's '72 season actually was.

 

27-10 346.3 IP 1.97 ERA, .99 WHIP, K/9 of 8, K/BB of 3.56, though his ERA+ was *only* 182.

 

The real kicker is something everyone is aware of...the Phillies won 59 games that year. He won 45.7% of the Phillies games that year.

 

 

And MoS...Garland is in my top 5 for sure.

And MoS...Garland is in my top 5 for sure.

 

See I knew I wasnt the only one..

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb...s_mlb&fext=.jsp

 

Houston television KRIV-TV, citing Major League Baseball sources, reported Thursday night the Astros and Roger Clemens were "very close to agreement" on a one-year contract that will make the seven-time Cy Young Award winner the highest-paid pitcher in history.

 

According to the station, the Astros will give Clemens a guaranteed salary in excess of the previous record of the highest salary earned by a pitcher in a single season, $17.5 million last year by Pedro Martinez, then with the Boston Red Sox. The station also reported the agreement could be announced as soon as Friday.

Edited January 21, 200521 yr by Gene Honda Civic

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1972067

 

Clemens gets record $18M deal.