Then, there should be a non-Sox "baseball talk only" area created.

 

Any movement in Major League Baseball affects the White Sox one way or another.

Still a good move by Hendry. We all know 'Farm Club Farnsworth' was not the answer. Now the Cubs have 3 guys to possibly compete for the closer role.

 

Exactly right Dotel is an awesome setup man but a terrible closer....

In theory, anything the Cubs do should be then in the Pale Hose forum, because we play them during the year...

 

IMO, this is sports bar material, but i don't really care

Then, there should be a non-Sox "baseball talk only" area created.

 

Any movement in Major League Baseball affects the White Sox one way or another.

Did it kill you to have to wade through the thread?

Wade through it?

 

I helped make it.

His brother Jeff is with the Nationals now. I'm not sure how he's going to take to this move. I'd still prefer him on the Sox over Adkins.

I thought they already dumped Matt Anderson...exactly the same type of pitcher...100 mph fast ball with the arm, Shingo frisbee in the head.

You'd think that the Cubs would want to hang on to one of their few capable arms in the bullpen considering their situation, but apparently not...

 

I know he's a headcase, but Jesus, that pen is actually getting worse.

You'd think that the Cubs would want to hang on to one of their few capable arms in the bullpen considering their situation, but apparently not...

 

I know he's a headcase, but Jesus, that pen is actually getting worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NO its getting better!! Cubs are losing more than they are gaining.

Well, if they get Dotel, they'll still need a closer.

 

Dotel = Hawkins

This makes more sense.  I know he has been targeting this guy for awhile now.

 

But, he's sorely mistaken if he thinks he's aquiring a closer. 

 

A closer, Dotel is not.

The good thing about the trade is the Sox get to light him up more than the once or twice a year than they normally do.

Still a good move by Hendry. We all know 'Farm Club Farnsworth' was not the answer. Now the Cubs have 3 guys to possibly compete for the closer role.

 

He got three sucky (for lack of a better word) for a guy with an absolutely dazzling arm, peanut brain or not.

 

And yes, the prospects he's getting back are mid-tier, if that.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that Hendry could have gotten a better package? Hell, I would have loved to see Farnsy here for Adkins + a low-level guy.

 

Stuff isn't everything, but he has an awesome hook, an electric slider, and he can bring the heat.

 

Oh well. The Tigers are starting to worry me some (not a lot, just a bit more than last year). I don't think their playoff bound, but I do think adding Farnsy will help their bullpen...

Cubs are also giving up a PTBNL.

For the last four years now he has had a good year, bad year, good year, bad year. Look for him to have an era under 3.50 this year.

Cubs are also giving up a PTBNL.

 

Wow, really?

 

While I don't expect the PTBNL to be much, this is Hendry (IMHO) second s***ty deal regarding a relief pitcher in two years.

 

The first mistake was getting s*** for Juan Cruz, who will now be a reliable arm with the Oakland Athletics, as well as (perhaps) a chance to spot start every now and then.

 

And now this -- jack squat for Farnsy.

 

Unfortunate, though, that Farnsy has to be in our division now, just incase he does realize his vast potential...

If history tells us anything, this move scares the hell out of me for a Sox fan. This guy has been awesome the past two years that have ended in an odd number(2001 - 4-6 2.74 ERA 1.15 WHIP K/9 of about 11.75, K/BB of about 3.7; 2003 - 3-2 3.30 ERA 1.17 WHIP K/9 of 10.85, K/BB of 2.5). The fact that they apparently got him for nothings is better for them.

 

And if it allows the Cubs to get Dotel, that is an even better move for the Cubs. No matter what Dotel does as a closer, they will have both LaTroy and Dotel, and both are great setup men, bad closers, meaning one will set up, one will close...maybe they'll get lucky and the one that closes will be good.

 

And again, that would be another good move by Beane. Their pen is pretty damn deep with the recent moves they have made, so he is dealing from a position of strength. If he can get a good package of players for Dotel, that is great for them.

 

I do think the team that comes out the worst in this is the Cubs. They are actually going to have to give up good players, are taking on money, and are only 'guaranteed'(I quote that because nothing is a guarantee, but this is as close to one as you can get in baseball) a good setup man. This move fits exactly what Detroit is doing, because they will either be a team that clicks for like 2 months and just gets on fire and plays .700 ball and starts to run away with the division, or they will be trading at the deadline. And I've basically explained my reasoning for the A's...dealing from strength.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Feb 9, 2005 -> 04:04 PM)

Wow, really?

 

While I don't expect the PTBNL to be much, this is Hendry (IMHO) second s***ty deal regarding a relief pitcher in two years.

 

The first mistake was getting s*** for Juan Cruz, who will now be a reliable arm with the Oakland Athletics, as well as (perhaps) a chance to spot start every now and then.

 

And now this -- jack squat for Farnsy.

 

Unfortunate, though, that Farnsy has to be in our division now, just incase he does realize his vast potential...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He also traded a PTBNL for Stephen f***ing Randolph, and it costed him two pitching prospects in the rule 5 draft.

He also traded a PTBNL for Stephen f***ing Randolph, and it costed him two pitching prospects in the rule 5 draft.

 

Good point. Cisco is a kid a lot of people like...

 

Then again, a lot of people over at BTF like the trade from Hendry's perspective, in that Novoa is a young Farnsy, and he's cheap. They feel like this was the best they could have gotten for Farnsy...

 

Novoa looks alright -- he put together some good minor league numbers from 2002-2004, but was garbage in his short stint with Detroit.

 

I just wish that they'd have traded him to a team outside the AL Central, just incase he gets his head on straight.

Hendry is really doing a brutal job. Talent wise the Tigers made the best of this deal, however, there is one thing to look at and thats the fact that Farnsworth was allegedly one of the rotten apples in the Cubs clubhouse, along with Sosa.

 

However, I really think Hendry is one of the most overrated GM's in baseball right now. When he first stepped onto the scene he made some good moves, but lately, I really don't know what the hell he's doing.

If history tells us anything, this move scares the hell out of me for a Sox fan.  This guy has been awesome the past two years that have ended in an odd number(2001 - 4-6 2.74 ERA 1.15 WHIP K/9 of about 11.75, K/BB of about 3.7; 2003 - 3-2 3.30 ERA 1.17 WHIP K/9 of 10.85, K/BB of 2.5).  The fact that they apparently got him for nothings is better for them.

 

And if it allows the Cubs to get Dotel, that is an even better move for the Cubs.  No matter what Dotel does as a closer, they will have both LaTroy and Dotel, and both are great setup men, bad closers, meaning one will set up, one will close...maybe they'll get lucky and the one that closes will be good. 

 

And again, that would be another good move by Beane.  Their pen is pretty damn deep with the recent moves they have made, so he is dealing from a position of strength.  If he can get a good package of players for Dotel, that is great for them.

 

I do think the team that comes out the worst in this is the Cubs.  They are actually going to have to give up good players, are taking on money, and are only 'guaranteed'(I quote that because nothing is a guarantee, but this is as close to one as you can get in baseball) a good setup man.  This move fits exactly what Detroit is doing, because they will either be a team that clicks for like 2 months and just gets on fire and plays .700 ball and starts to run away with the division, or they will be trading at the deadline.  And I've basically explained my reasoning for the A's...dealing from strength.

 

Good analysis, but I think regardless the Tigers will be holding onto there players at the end of the season. They are trying to build this team for the longer haul and showing the fans of Detroit that they care about winning. I don't know if Detroit has the pitching yet, but they definately have a talented lineup and you gotta like Bonderman and Maroth, but in the end I think there too weak in the starting pitching department. However, you gotta like a pen with Urbina, Percy, and Farnsworth.

 

I still think Urbina gets dealt by the start of the season, but as of now thats a nice looking back end of the pen.

So they have a closer whose mom has been kidnapped, and should play-but who knows, a $12 closer with a bad arm, and a headcase for a bullpen. Like I said before Tom Hicks>Mike Illitch

 

Hey, I could be a $12 closer with a bad arm, if the Tigers would sign me!

Dang... Tigers are getting scarier and scarier by the day.

 

This will be a 4 team race, folks. The offenses of Detroit and Cleveland should keep them around in the long haul, until the last month, like our offensive teams of the past.

2004 Tigers Pitching Staff. Road Stats:

 

Maroth: 5-10 5.26 ERA 1.52 WHIP

Bonderman: 7-7 4.76 ERA 1.26 WHIP

Robertson: 6-3 4.58 ERA 1.36 WHIP

Johnson: 4-5 4.14 ERA 1.32 WHIP

Knotts: 2-4 5.25 ERA 1.64 WHIP

Walker: 4.55 ERA 1.48 WHIP

Ledezma: 3.95 ERA 1.35 WHIP

Urbina: 5.33 ERA 1.50 WHIP

Patterson: 5.00 ERA 1.28 WHIP

True about the good year, bad year history for Farnsworthless.

BUT:

He's never switched leagues before. A whole new crop of players to try to learn about.

Plus, he's retarded. That makes learning new things difficult for him.

He's already 29 years old, and inconsistent as hell.

It could work out for the Tiggs, but it's just YET ANOTHER gamble for them.

The Tiggers got Farnsworth,Man guys i hate too say this but there getting kinda of scary,I-ROD,Maggs,Gullen,Troy Persaval(sorry its spelled wrong),Urbina,now Farns and a young pitching staff.