"El Duque" has a poor outing

[santo=dorf]

No worries: There was no official speed gun reading on Orlando 'El Duque' Hernandez during live batting practice Wednesday, but his session on the mound was a little less than overwhelming in terms of velocity. Guillen didn't seem to be the least bit worried about the veteran hurler, saying it was more the situation than anything concerning El Duque himself that dictated the way he threw.

 

"He hates to face his teammates, and he told me he doesn't like to pitch in (Spring Training) 'B' games," said Guillen, who admitted Hernandez's session wasn't very good. "He can't wait to face the real deal. I don't worry about him. He'll be ready in April.

 

"If I had to pick two guys in better shape than anyone, it's El Duque and (Jose) Contreras. (Hernandez) is the last guy on the staff I have to worry about."

 

Story

 

I'm interested in what some of these guys are going to look like next season. (Hernandez, Everett, Contreras)

[Gene Honda Civic]

Go to his MLB page and watch his highlights... He's striking guys out with mid-80's stuff... He just knows how to pitch.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

El Duque should be fine. It's not uncommon to have poor outings this early.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Go to his MLB page and watch his highlights... He's striking guys out with mid-80's stuff... He just knows how to pitch.

I just watched 13 of his k's from last season... Here's the speeds from the gun on each.

 

85

76

88

78

84

81

88

83

75

88

90

88

[RockRaines]

I wouldnt worry, he apparently hates pitching to teamates etc, he is a game pitcher I wouldnt worry. The only thing i would worry about is BMAC's control. Apparently he hit A-row in the back with a changeup

[Y2HH]

And if I recall correctly, Takatsu pitched like that (not very well) throughout all of spring training last year, almost not making the final roster, yet when the real games started he was lights out.

 

Orlando Hernandez is built for the big game, why waste stuff in batting practice at the very beginning of spring training before your arm is even warmed up?

 

-y2

 

I wouldnt worry, he apparently hates pitching to teamates etc, he is a game pitcher I wouldnt worry.  The only thing i would worry about is BMAC's control.  Apparently he hit A-row in the back with a changeup

[witesoxfan]

I just watched 13 of his k's from last season... Here's the speeds from the gun on each.

 

85

76

88

78

84

81

88

83

75

88

90

88

 

If you had a pitcher who had the command and smarts of El Duque, and the stuff of Jose Contreras, you'd have a pretty damn good pitcher.

 

Roger Clemens, maybe?

[Gene Honda Civic]

If you had a pitcher who had the command and smarts of El Duque, and the stuff of Jose Contreras, you'd have a pretty damn good pitcher.

 

Roger Clemens, maybe?

I think that as Pedro loses more of his pure stuff you'll see just how good of a pitcher he really is. I think the future pedro is the best comparison that I can come up with for current Duque. Different arm angles, good movement, changing speeds.

[Butter Parque]

From watching all of his starts from last year, you could see he is a completely different pitcher then when he first came up. He changes speeds constantly to keep the hitters off balance to make up for his diminishing velocity. But from this and just thinking about our rotation, there are a ton of question marks.

 

Mark Buehrle: It's known he's not a true ace, but has been very productive over his career. He has worked a ton of innnings and you go to hope injuries don't become a concern.

 

Freddy Garcia: He was a highly touted prospect and came up and was great. Struggled a bit before rebounding last season. But when he was traded to Chicago, his numbers definitely slipped. Can he be as good as he was in the first half of last season?

 

Jose Contreras: He's a headcase. I can understand struggling in NY. But when he came to Chicago, he still was 50-50 on how he was going to pitch. One game he was dominant, one game you had no chance to win with him in the game. Which Jose Contreras will show up this year?

 

El Duque: The biggest question mark in the rotation. Hasn't been able to stay healthy and has gone through major arm surgeries. Just when you thought he had come back healthy and productive last year, he gets hurt and makes only one start in the postseason. 5 innings, 3 earned runs. Will he stay healthy?

 

Jon Garland: Definitely an upgrade in the 5th startere spot, but he's a headcase, who in my opinion, doesn't want to be in Chicago anymore. He has the talent to win 20 games, but never gets past 12. He's a great 5 inning pitcher, unfortunatley he'll be counted on to go more then that.

 

 

The onl;y constant inmy opinion is Buehrle. After that, theres a lot of question marks.

[3E8]

Jon Garland: He has the talent to win 20 games

That's just Hawk being a homer.

[santo=dorf]

The only number that "slipped" when Garcia came here was his home ERA and WHIP. Take any pitcher in the MLB, put them in USCF, and their ERA will skyrocket. Especially your boy Eric Milton. :puke

 

W/Seattle

ERA road/home: 3.91/2.61

WHIP road/home: 1.37/1.06

K/9 road/home: 5.4/8.13

GO/AO road/home: 1.13/.88

 

 

W/Sox

ERA road/home: 3.25/5.37

WHIP road/home: 1.04/1.40

K/9 road/home: 10.15/7.98

GO/AO road/home: 1.08/1.57

 

 

Looks like we really missed the boat by passing off Eric Milton!

[The Critic]

Butter, I agree with your concerns about Contreras and Hernandez, but IMO there's no reason to worry about injuries with MB. He's shown nothing to make that a concern, other than a general concern that you can tag on anyone.

Freddy's had success at the major league level, and there's really not much reason to think he won't be good this year.

Garland will be counted on to get through the sixth. The Sox bullpen is very deep this year, and the 7th, 8th and 9th are well accounted for.

I'll take my chances with Duque and Jose.

The pitching staff is a lot less of a worry than it was last year.

[witesoxfan]

Mark Buehrle: It's known he's not a true ace, but has been very productive over his career. He has worked a ton of innnings and you go to hope injuries don't become a concern.

 

I highly doubt pitching related injuries effect Buehrle long term. He has no pitch that really wears and tears on his arm. The only thing that could hurt him is if he threw like 300 innings, and that is still not a guarantee.

 

Freddy Garcia: He was a highly touted prospect and came up and was great. Struggled a bit before rebounding last season. But when he was traded to Chicago, his numbers definitely slipped. Can he be as good as he was in the first half of last season?

 

I assume by that, you mean his second half was bad. I don't know about you, but from a guy pitching in Coors East, I will take 7-3 4.37 ERA 1.28 WHIP K/9 of almost exactly 9, especially when you consider that he had a horrendous August(2-1 6.54 ERA 1.42 WHIP .307 BAA along with allowing 8 of his 9 second half homers in 31.6 IP). That was the only month his ERA was above 4.00, the only month he had a WHIP of above 1.35, and a BAA of more then .244.

 

Jose Contreras: Which Jose Contreras will show up this year?

 

Probably the same one

 

El Duque: The biggest question mark in the rotation. Hasn't been able to stay healthy and has gone through major arm surgeries. Just when you thought he had come back healthy and productive last year, he gets hurt and makes only one start in the postseason. 5 innings, 3 earned runs. Will he stay healthy?

 

He is not the biggest question mark in the rotation, unless you are talking about health here. If he is healthy, he will be good enough. Health is the only concern.

 

If the reports are true, he will be healthy enough for 180-200 innings, or basically the whole year.

 

Jon Garland: Definitely an upgrade in the 5th startere spot, but he's a headcase, who in my opinion, doesn't want to be in Chicago anymore. He has the talent to win 20 games, but never gets past 12. He's a great 5 inning pitcher, unfortunatley he'll be counted on to go more then that.

 

Jon Garland will be a very solid #5 starter. We have no reason to complain. Our 5th starter last year was Danelixon Wraugrilliaz(hope you caught that). The year before it consisted of Wright, Stewart, Porzio, and Cotts, which was horrible too. The fact that we will be able to get 5 wins out of the #5 spot, let alone the 10 or 12 we will get, will be a huge boost.

 

And he doesn't have the stuff to win 20.

 

Consider our 04 rotation going in was Buehrle, Loaiza, Garland, Schoenweis, and Wright. Then consider our 05 rotation.

 

Don't worry. The rotation should be the least of our concerns.

[Y2HH]

Personally, I think this rotation is under-rated specifically because of El Duque's ability to avoid injury and a few others inability to remain consistant. I think we will be better than most expect, top to bottom, especially since our pen has more reliable pitchers in it now.

 

Is Contraras a head case? Yes...but he's still better than most #3 pitchers in baseball.

 

Is El Duque an injury case? Yes...but when healthy, he's an ace quality pitcher bred for the big -- must win situation -- games.

 

Is Jon Garland inconsistant? Actually, he's as consistant as a pitcher can get...do Sox fans believe he is better than he is, yes...but consistancy isn't the question. Garland is better than most #4 and #5 pitchers in baseball...he's going to win 10+ games and turn in a few dominant outings with an ERA somehwhere in the 4.5+ range.

 

We also do not have to deal with Koch blowing a good number of games for a half season this time, either.

 

-y2

[witesoxfan]

I kind of think it is funny, personally, about how many people have somewhat high expectations early in the season, and then realize that Garland is not much more then a mediocre pitcher.

 

The best I think you will ever see from Garland is what you saw from Jason Marquis this year.

 

I'd take that though

[Y2HH]

I agree...every season it's the same thing. "Jon Garland will turn the corner, this will be the season Jon Garland becomes an ace, blah blah blah", is what I hear -- year after year -- only he doesn't "turn the corner" and remains the same pitcher he's always been. He's perfect for the #4 or #5 slot...he will keep you in the game as long as you score a few runs and along the way he will turn in a few dominant performances.

 

As long as Garland wins 10+ games per year, I have no problem having him as a #4 or #5 pitcher...no problem at all.

 

 

I kind of think it is funny, personally, about how many people have somewhat high expectations early in the season, and then realize that Garland is not much more then a mediocre pitcher.

 

The best I think you will ever see from Garland is what you saw from Jason Marquis this year.

 

I'd take that though

[witesoxfan]

Garland is about all we need out of the #5 spot. He could be the reason we win the division this year.

 

Having 5 solid starters is really underrated.

[Y2HH]

Do you mean like last year? It wasn't even called the #5 slot on the Sox, it was called the black hole of the bottomless void of death and decay.

 

 

Garland is about all we need out of the #5 spot.  He could be the reason we win the division this year.

 

Having 5 solid starters is really underrated.

[witesoxfan]

Do you mean like last year?  It wasn't even called the #5 slot on the Sox, it was called the black hole of the bottomless void of death and decay. 

 

Last year, 2003...both years, that is what hurt us the most in the long run.

 

Hell, if we had a Cory Lidle in the #5 spot in 2003 for the whole year, we probably would have won the division.

 

And I promised myself I wouldn't look back at 2003 anymore.

[TLAK]

Last year, 2003...both years, that is what hurt us the most in the long run.

 

Hell, if we had a Cory Lidle in the #5 spot in 2003 for the whole year, we probably would have won the division.

 

And I promised myself I wouldn't look back at 2003 anymore.

A bit of revisionist history. For the past two years it was the 4 spot that killed the White Sox, in the person of Danny Wright. Both years he got hurt and set off the domino's of destruction.

 

Two years ago the 5 man was supposed to be Estaban Loaiza and he won 20 some games. Last year it was Schoenny, who was good until he got sore. One could argue that had Wright been as effective as hoped, Schoe wouldn't have gotten so many innings and would not have been hurt himself.

 

So keep an eye ths spring on the guys who won't make the cut initially, they may turn out to be the key to the season.

[Yossarian]

From watching all of his starts from last year, you could see he is a completely different pitcher then when he first came up. He changes speeds constantly to keep the hitters off balance to make up for his diminishing velocity. But from this and just thinking about our rotation, there are a ton of question marks.

 

Mark Buehrle: It's known he's not a true ace, but has been very productive over his career. He has worked a ton of innnings and you go to hope injuries don't become a concern.

 

Freddy Garcia: He was a highly touted prospect and came up and was great. Struggled a bit before rebounding last season. But when he was traded to Chicago, his numbers definitely slipped. Can he be as good as he was in the first half of last season?

 

Jose Contreras: He's a headcase. I can understand struggling in NY. But when he came to Chicago, he still was 50-50 on how he was going to pitch. One game he was dominant, one game you had no chance to win with him in the game. Which Jose Contreras will show up this year?

 

El Duque: The biggest question mark in the rotation. Hasn't been able to stay healthy and has gone through major arm surgeries. Just when you thought he had come back healthy and productive last year, he gets hurt and makes only one start in the postseason. 5 innings, 3 earned runs. Will he stay healthy?

 

Jon Garland: Definitely an upgrade in the 5th startere spot, but he's a headcase, who in my opinion, doesn't want to be in Chicago anymore. He has the talent to win 20 games, but never gets past 12. He's a great 5 inning pitcher, unfortunatley he'll be counted on to go more then that.

The onl;y constant inmy opinion is Buehrle. After that, theres a lot of question marks.

I wish I could say I disagree with you, but I agree except for Freddy. I think he's going to be all right. The other three guys are all big question marks.

[WHarris1]

Good, no one melted down after a poor BP session, thats a relief.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 23, 2005 -> 05:16 PM)

  Our 5th starter last year was Danelixon Wraugrilliaz(hope you caught that).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No love for Josh Stewart, Arnie Munoz or Neal?

[witesoxfan]

No love for Josh Stewart, Arnie Munoz or Neal? 

 

:finger

[DonkeyKongerko]

Duque's breaking ball is electric when its going right. I don't think anyone in the game hides the ball better than him either right now. Injuries are always a concern but with our bullpen, I don't think Ozzie will hesitate to relieve him in a jam.