But it's totally subjective - and dependent on what athlete, what drug, and the dosage.  All I'm saying is that not all steroids are bad - again, not all athletes abuse steroids by taking them - did McGwire or Bonds or Canseco - I don't see them having roid rage and killing people. 

 

But again - who cares how much they did?  If someone wants to inject something into their body, as long as it doesn't affect me, they should be allowed to.  I'm sorry for those parents that lost their children - but to blame steroids for their deaths (which were suicides, not overdoses) is failing to take responsibility for their own shortcomings as parents.  Why didn't they teach their kids different?  It's like those parents in the 80's who sued Judas Priest for their kids' suicides.  It's just representative of what's taking place in our society with people refusing to take responsibility for their own shortcomings.

Maybe this is just me -- I don't have any problem with this discussion, but it seems out of place here, as it's not about what's actually going on in the hearings, which is what I'm really interested in right now. I just don't want that part of the thread, the blow-by-blow account, to get lost in this argument. Personally, I wish you'd start a new thread on this. But again, jmho.

I don't see how Congress can sit there all day listening to all this damn drivel. It is mind numbingly BORING. Esp. listening to Selig, Fuehr and the others now... they are putting me to sleep with this crap now....

What is going on, btw? I don't even know who's speaking.

Right now the Chairman is drilling one of the guys about the language of the agreement. I don't remember who this guy is he is questioning though...anyone help with this?

I still have this on from time to time, but I watched just about the whole time the players were on. This has been very interesting IMO. McGwire's coming out of this looking like a complete jackass.

Well they were smart to put this panel on last. Boring.

Basically it's congress saying "this is what you've written" & it seems to contain loppholes as far as suspensions & public disclosure go.

 

MLB is then responding "nobody paid much attention to those. They were grandfathered from the old policy. This is what really intend to do."

Right now the Chairman is drilling one of the guys about the language of the agreement. I don't remember who this guy is he is questioning though...anyone help with this?

Good enough. Sounds like it's gotten too slow to care. Are the management people just being good enough weasels that there's not much to say? Or have even the congressmen gotten tired?

Waxman is trying now to nail Selig about Conseco's abuse of Steriods. When did you learn about his abuse and what did you do to try and solve this and Selig was dancing like crazy to get out of it. They will weasel their way out of it all. I don't even know why I am still watching. This stuff will put you to sleep. Its funny to watch Selig squirm a little bit.

Mostly the comments and questions that were asked of the players sounded more like softball type questions and they should have been easily answered. They didn't really nail anyone. They should have drilled Big Mac.

Bud Selig: "There was no official drug policy before me."

 

Congressman: "A 1991 Drug Policiy states....."

 

Bud Selig: "That policy wasn't instituted in the collective bargaining agreement....." (continues to b**** and avoid issue with legal terms)

I haven't had time to read this long thread but IMHO McGwire all but admitted that he took steroids. Many of the representatives jumped on him big time during questioning and he looked oh so uncomfortable. Sosa came off a complete buffoon. Palmiero denied steroid use emphatically, in fact he was fierce in his denial and he is obviously angry beyond words at Conseco. Jose, by the way, comes off as a complete and total phony. All throughout his book he praises and extols the virtues of steroids. He was backpedaling furiously before the House Committee. All of he players were tripping all over themselves in their desire to volunteer to work with the youth of America and save them from the evils of steroids. It was kind of sad and pathetic in a way. Baseball looked the other way because the home run records made the cash registers ring.

Mostly the comments and questions that were asked of the players sounded more like softball type questions and they should have been easily answered. They didn't really nail anyone. They should have drilled Big Mac.

 

I agree Congree asked relatively soft question. Everyone did well accept McGuire. Don't need him to address steroid issues to know he lied.

 

I'm interested in how Sporstcenter covers these hearings. I expect "baseball analysts" to label this hearing a "witchhunt" and avoid all issues.

Discussions becoming heated between hearing members and MLBPA officials.

 

This is great television.

 

The squirmy lawyer responsible for drafting the newly adopted drug policy was put in his place; basically questioned of his role.

HOLY CRAP! This congressman is PISSED!

 

He just got Bud to admite on RECORD that if it were up to him, he would have made the punishments tougher, but since it is a collectively bargined agreement his hands were tied. Looks like MLBPA has egg on their face now!

I dont knwo who this black congressman is, but i liek him a lot. He just called out the MLBPA by saying that if people in his district are caught with some of the drugs in the MLB policy they would go to jail. Career be damned. In MLB, you get 3 to 4 chances. ROCK ON!

I dont knwo who this black congressman is, but i liek him a lot. He just called out the MLBPA by saying that if people in his district are caught with some of the drugs in the MLB policy they would go to jail. Career be damned. In MLB, you get 3 to 4 chances. ROCK ON!

 

 

Cummings from Maryland.. he is awesome. He nailed their asses good.

Black congressman gave a great analogy of real life.

 

People in his district, if caught possessing illicit drugs, are immediately thrown into jails if convicted. They're livelihoods are ruined, yet we're supposed to care about a major leaguers' salaries?

 

Fueher, however, believes "progressive punishment."

I never before realized that DF was such a girly man.

Ahhh.. I LOVE it.

 

Souder is kicking their asses also.

 

 

LMAO.. this is hysterical.

 

Manfred is a total moron.

But it's totally subjective - and dependent on what athlete, what drug, and the dosage.  All I'm saying is that not all steroids are bad - again, not all athletes abuse steroids by taking them - did McGwire or Bonds or Canseco - I don't see them having roid rage and killing people. 

 

But again - who cares how much they did?  If someone wants to inject something into their body, as long as it doesn't affect me, they should be allowed to.  I'm sorry for those parents that lost their children - but to blame steroids for their deaths (which were suicides, not overdoses) is failing to take responsibility for their own shortcomings as parents.  Why didn't they teach their kids different?  It's like those parents in the 80's who sued Judas Priest for their kids' suicides.  It's just representative of what's taking place in our society with people refusing to take responsibility for their own shortcomings.

 

To your first point.

No they haven't killed anyone or have roid rage in public. But Steroid abuse will do incredible, harmful effects to their bodies. Cancer, Liver Damage, Heart Damage...etc. But then again as you said: who cares how much they did? If someone wants to inject something into their body, as long as it doesn't affect me, they should be allowed to.

I guess we should adopt this same attiyude twoard other drugs too?

Heroin? Go on kids, shoot up, as long as it doesn't effect me.

Crack? Knock yourselves out. I don't care, as long as you have fun!

 

Now, you're second point:

It's like those parents in the 80's who sued Judas Priest for their kids' suicides.

 

Umm...this is a comparison without any basis.

These kids committed suicide due to depression resulting from steroid withdrawl, among other side-effects from the abuse.

Unlike your very poor analogy to the heavy metal/suicide debate, that had no connection to those deaths.

 

If you really don't care, stop posting in this thread.

But your statements are uninformed, heartless and rather selfish.

 

These people are killing themselves by illegally abusing drugs in high doses and they have influenced hundreds of kids to do the same, but if they hit homeruns...you dont care, because you're entertained.

 

:headshake

Edited March 18, 200521 yr by RibbieRubarb

Ahhh.. I LOVE it.

 

Souder is kicking their asses also.

LMAO.. this is hysterical.

 

Manfred is a total moron.

 

 

This is great TV...I Love TIVO! I'll enjoy this for years...

This is great TV...I Love TIVO! I'll enjoy this for years...

 

 

 

I tivo'd it and for some reason it cut off at the players first break so I am going to do it again tonight so Jim can see it. I didn't get one thing done at work today.. LOL

LMAO..

 

Westmoreland: "You just got your hat handed to you"

To your first point.

No they haven't killed anyone or have roid rage in public. But Steroid abuse will do incredible, harmful effects to their bodies. Cancer, Liver Damage, Heart Damage...etc. But then again as you said: who cares how much they did?  If someone wants to inject something into their body, as long as it doesn't affect me, they should be allowed to.

I guess we should adopt this same attiyude twoard other drugs too?

Heroin? Go on kids, shoot up, as long as it doesn't effect me.

Crack? Knock yourselves out. I don't care, as long as you have fun!

 

Now, you're second point:

It's like those parents in the 80's who sued Judas Priest for their kids' suicides.

 

Umm...this is a comparison without any basis.

These kids committed suicide due to depression resulting from steroid withdrawl, among other side-effects from the abuse.

Unlike your very poor analogy to the heavy metal/suicide debate, that had no connection to those deaths.

 

If you really don't care, stop posting in this thread.

But your statements are uninformed, heartless and rather selfish.

 

These people are killing themselves by illegally abusing drugs in high doses and they have influenced hundreds of kids to do the same, but if they hit homeruns...you dont care, because you're entertained.

 

:headshake

I agree w/ you. But Barry Bonds has made very similar statements -- it's not that rare a perspective.

Edited March 18, 200521 yr by jackie hayes

I tivo'd it and for some reason it cut off at the players first break so I am going to do it again tonight so Jim can see it. I didn't get one thing done at work today.. LOL

 

I have a TV Tuner on my computer in my office and cab;le running into it. So I got nothing done, too.

 

Here's to a "Do-Nothing" Thursday!!