ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:21 PM) Since the players, vote the guy in, I agree with Steff on this. It'd be pretty easy to replace him if they actually wanted a different style. It's true they vote him in, however I think he dictates the policy and they follow it. Because of the money he makes for them the don't attempt to vote him out. Regardless of who is leading the lemurs, I agree with you that the union is a little at fault then the owners, although the owners didn't try real hard in these negotiations. Edited March 18, 2005 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 07:58 PM) they are making too big of a deal over steroids, steroids are cool and I would reccomend all young people looking to get bigger to take them.. I hope you meant to put that in green, and your repsonse to it also. If you are truly serious with that statement...I feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:17 PM) Can I ask you a few questions? Do you think illegal substances such as heroine, weed, crack, ecstacy are cool as well? Do you think that operating machinery or vehicles under the influence of such is cool? What is your definition of cool? The fact that 17% of roid users can grow an addiction to me is not cool. The fact that those who become addicted can suffer severe depression leading to suicide during withdrawal is not cool. The fact that over 50% of the wrestlers who were roids users during the Hogan era are dead is not cool. The data is overwhelming that continued roid usage will lead to an ever decreasing quality of life is not cool. Maybe ignorance is cool :rolly did I say those other things were cool? No I did not.. I dont understand where you get operating machinery while under the influence from what I said, I think I made it pretty clear what I was talking about.. Give me a list, with the EXACT percentage of wrestlers who have died from steroids since the Hogan era with proof it was caused from steroids.. without that I dont believe that bulls***.. so far, from what I have witnessed with my friends.. it has not "decreased" any qulaity in their life.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) It's true they vote him in, however I think he dictates the policy and they follow it. Because of the money he makes for them the don't attempt to vote him out. He doesn't negotiate their contracts... and he has no influence over what the idiot owners agree to pay them. Again.. you make good points, but I respectfully disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 18, 2005 -> 02:29 AM) It's true they vote him in, however I think he dictates the policy and they follow it. Because of the money he makes for them the don't attempt to vote him out. Okay, but then it's the players making the real choice every time they vote him back in. They value money over better policy. Not saying it wouldn't be a common choice in any circle, but it's not like he's brainwashing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Do you think Mac knows Sosa was on roids? Just wondering. Final thoughts. Manfred is the punching bag for the owners. The OR is in there so if a player like Pujols tests positive the commisioner can choose to hide the infraction. It allows the commish to weigh economic concerns vs suspensions. The owners can claim they want a zero-tolerance toughest standard possible but they want to control revelations. They hide behind Fehr & the players for maintaining that control. Congress is fed up. Now MLB has to weigh the value of the anti-trust exemption vs removing the ORs. Removing that which gives them control & discretion. Someone mentioned that this will long be a dead issue when Thomas comes up for HOF voting. I strongly disagree. Bonds is still on pace to grab the all-time careeer HR record. If he should succeed in doing so this issue will be alive for a very long time. Somewhere today it was mentioned that over 1/2 of the MVP's of the league the past 30 yrs are suspected of using performance enhancers that are now considered illegal. That's a pretty big black eye to the game, records, & HOF stature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:30 PM) I hope you meant to put that in green, and your repsonse to it also. If you are truly serious with that statement...I feel sorry for you. im dead serious, there should be no green there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) so far, from what I have witnessed with my friends.. it has not "decreased" any qulaity in their life.. Your friends are very lucky.. from what I've seen first hand anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:33 PM) Your friends are very lucky.. from what I've seen first hand anyway. Unless any of you have ever used steroids.. you dont know what your talking about thats all I have to say about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 18, 2005 -> 02:29 AM) Regardless of who is leading the lemurs, I agree with you that the union is a little at fault then the owners, although the owners didn't try real hard in these negotiations. Maybe the fans too? It's a real question, how much are fans willing to give up to see the game clean? And if it's so important to us, why haven't attendance and tv subscriptions fallen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) Do you think Mac knows Sosa was on roids? Just wondering. Absolutely. Everyone that was using knows everyone else that was (is) using. And for the record.. in case it's not clear.. it is my opinion that Sosa and Mark both used roids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:35 PM) Unless any of you have ever used steroids.. you dont know what your talking about thats all I have to say about it I've never used them.. but I know people who have and I've seen them destroy several lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:36 PM) Absolutely. Everyone that was using knows everyone else that was (is) using. And for the record.. in case it's not clear.. it is my opinion that Sosa and Mark both used roids. My friend told me that Mac admitted to using roids? He could have been mistaken but he said that Mark admitted to using them today.. sorry if someone already mentioned this, I cant skim this huge thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) im dead serious, there should be no green there.. Well, that statement alone is enough evidence to convince me that steroid abuse effects one's mental abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(Steff @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) I've never used them.. but I know people who have and I've seen them destroy several lives. Steff I didnt mean to make that seem like I was directing it to you, I forgot I hit quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) did I say those other things were cool? No I did not.. I dont understand where you get operating machinery while under the influence from what I said, I think I made it pretty clear what I was talking about.. Give me a list, with the EXACT percentage of wrestlers who have died from steroids since the Hogan era with proof it was caused from steroids.. without that I dont believe that bulls***.. so far, from what I have witnessed with my friends.. it has not "decreased" any qulaity in their life.. Listen to Steve Courson talk. He has had a heart transplant and a liver transplant due to his abuse of steroids in the NFL. How about Lyle Alzado who deid of a brain tumor caused from the steriods. While its true that there has been no clinical trails to definitively state steriods will kill you (as stated at the hearings) the evidence is growing as the NFL players from the late 70's to early 90's get older. We will see how many die early. Todd Bell from the Bears in the 80's died of a heart attack at the age of 46. While this does occur in the normal population it shouldn't occur in a man of his fitness level at the time of death. I'm not saying he was on steriods for sure butt watch the deaths of NFL players from the time period when they had a minimal steriod policy and it may change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:35 PM) Maybe the fans too? It's a real question, how much are fans willing to give up to see the game clean? And if it's so important to us, why haven't attendance and tv subscriptions fallen? Speaking for myself.. I think the clean players far outweigh the dirty ones. And thankfully, the team I support has a very "clean" record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:35 PM) Unless any of you have ever used steroids.. you dont know what your talking about thats all I have to say about it That might be a nominee for Post of the Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 did I say those other things were cool? No I did not.. I dont understand where you get operating machinery while under the influence from what I said, I think I made it pretty clear what I was talking about.. Give me a list, with the EXACT percentage of wrestlers who have died from steroids since the Hogan era with proof it was caused from steroids.. without that I dont believe that bulls***.. so far, from what I have witnessed with my friends.. it has not "decreased" any qulaity in their life.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2004-03-12-...wrestling_x.htm Pretty extensive report on roids & wrestling. Does your entire source of knowledge on a subject come from what you witness in your personal life? When do you consider that of statistics, reports, articles, periodical, & books? I've given you numbers & facts but you choose to ignore them in lieu of what you've witnessed amongst your friends. Good luck in life young person. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:37 PM) My friend told me that Mac admitted to using roids? He could have been mistaken but he said that Mark admitted to using them today.. sorry if someone already mentioned this, I cant skim this huge thread.. Your friend is mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) Listen to Steve Courson talk. He has had a heart transplant and a liver transplant due to his abuse of steroids in the NFL. How about Lyle Alzado who deid of a brain tumor caused from the steriods. While its true that there has been no clinical trails to definitively state steriods will kill you (as stated at the hearings) the evidence is growing as the NFL players from the late 70's to early 90's get older. We will see how many die early. Todd Bell from the Bears in the 80's died of a heart attack at the age of 46. While this does occur in the normal population it shouldn't occur in a man of his fitness level at the time of death. I'm not saying he was on steriods for sure butt watch the deaths of NFL players from the time period when they had a minimal steriod policy and it may change your mind. yeah key word in there... ABUSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(T R U @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) Steff I didnt mean to make that seem like I was directing it to you, I forgot I hit quote No harm. I don't agree with you, based on my personal experience, but you're entitled to your opinion. I truly hope that you, and your friends that use them, never have the displeasure of seeing the negatives and destruction of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) Okay, but then it's the players making the real choice every time they vote him back in. They value money over better policy. Not saying it wouldn't be a common choice in any circle, but it's not like he's brainwashing them. I agree but as I said earlier he makes them a ton of money so they keep him in. As Steff pointed out he doesn't negotiate the contrats but he does things such as refusing to go for the salary cap, keep in the arbitration process which artificailly increases their pay when he negotiates the CBA. Just from my dealings in the different professional sports the players in the MLB follow him more than any other sport follows what their respective leaders say. You may very well be correct but as Steff said we can agree to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Mar 17, 2005 -> 08:39 PM) I've given you numbers & facts but you choose to ignore them in lieu of what you've witnessed amongst your friends. Good luck in life young person. :rolly haha, you give me your "numbers" but yet you have no experiance with this what so ever.. You sit there and tell me "good luck in life" like im pulling s*** out of my ass or im like some 15 year old who is clueless.. I have friends that have used steroids, I have used illegal substances and if you abuse it you will get in trouble.. but like I said.. if you have never taken it you dont know what your talking about, simply put you can show me all the anti steroid articles you want, doesnt mean I dont know what Im talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 wow Steff 200+ posts on this thread. Keeping of the life of it together, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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