Terri Shaivo thread

[JUGGERNAUT]

What's on trial here is the credibility of America's courts:

 

Plain simple facts:

-Judge Greer has ruled that Terri expressed a r-t-d in her present state & that Michael is her guardian.

-The Fed courts have declined to interfere with that ruling. That r-t-d is protected by the USSC's ruling in 1990.

-The matter is before the USSC for the 3rd time but could rule on it because of Schiavo's Law.

 

Pending actions:

Gov Bush is hopeful he will sign a FL law today that will remove Michael as the guardian & place Terri in protective custody with FLDCFS. Another law pending in FL will require that r-t-d be expressed in writing. This is sure to be ruled unconstitutional.

 

The battle is over. Terri's r-t-d is protected by the USSC's 1990 ruling & Greer's ruling as identified that r-t-d. Protective custody will not change that. The court upheld MO's clear & conclusive r-t-d affirmation in that case, but a requirement that it be in writing is sure to be unreasonable.

 

The rule of law is more important than Terri's life. As sad as that sounds it's reality.

Michael may be innocent or he may be a murder. Greer may be wrong or he may be right. Our judical system is no infailable. At best we hope it get's right more than it get's it wrong.

 

In the same context I feel Greer did not do enough towards his decision. He has been criticized for not getting off his ass & going to visit Terri in person. If he had just done that then he could have spared us all of this tragedy. There he could have allowed the Schindler's medical expert to make his most convincing case & given M Schiavo's medical expert the same opportunity. Having witnessed her reaction first hand no one could claim they didn't have an opportunity to convince Greer.

 

In the spirit of the clear & conclusive statute of MO I do not think it violates privacy rights to require that the judge presiding the decision appear before the incapacitated person & witness her reactions first hand. I would hope that all states look at this in legislating their procedures governing r-t-d laws.

 

If you believe all the testimony supporting Terri's r-t-l desire is stronger than Greer's decision then her stay of execution rests in the hands of the USSC. That's her only hope in her passing hours.

Edited March 23, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Rex Kickass]

The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals again denied the Schindler's motion for an injunction.

[Steff]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...thenation/32281

 

Exploiting Terri Schiavo

1 hour, 4 minutes ago Op/Ed - The Nation

 

 

David Corn

 

Will the exploiters of Terri Schiavo admit they went overboard?

 

 

Her parents will not give up their battle to restore the feeding tube to their brain-damaged daughter. No one can fault them for holding on to hope in this tragic case and doing everything they can. But the Republicans who pushed through emergency legislation to "save" Schiavo and their allies in the media issued a variety of disingenuous claims. Senate majority leader Bill Frist, a heart doctor, suggested that he could diagnose Schiavo (by examining years-old videos) better than the several neurologists who have studied her in person and have found she is in a persistent vegetative state.

 

 

More at link...

 

 

Oye ve.. :headshake

[Steff]

From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time

 

Who should decide Terry's fate?

 

Politicians 1% 1196 votes

Judges 4% 8479 votes

Parents 22% 47346 votes

Husband 73% 154304 votes

[JUGGERNAUT]

The law being debated in FL won't save Terri's life but it will make it much harder for a guardian to retain guardianship while denying rehab & other options that could improve the person's quality of life.

 

I'm in favor of that. I believe the r-t-d is inextricably linked with a state in which death is imminent or pain & suffering is intolerable. As such it's vitally important that state courts oversee the care of incapacitated persons such that there is greater weight placed upon a prognosis for life than death.

Edited March 23, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[Steff]

21:18... defeated by Fla Senate

 

 

I hope this stops soon. No way in hell I want the state able to make decisions about my life.. or death.

[JUGGERNAUT]

MSNBC: The FL Senate rejected a bill that would force the tubes be put back in place. I'm assuming this is the bill requiring r-t-d be in writing.

 

Earlier Gov Bush alleged earlier that the DCFS found reason to believe that Terri may have been mis-diagnosed. Instead of being in a PVS she might be in a state of minimal consciousness. That's a step above PVS.

 

That narrows it down to the USSC as her parent's only hope. Will the new Schiavo Law make the difference? Those supporting Terri's r-t-l are praying it does in time.

 

http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

Edited March 23, 2005 by JUGGERNAUT

[mreye]

From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time

 

Who should decide Terry's fate?

 

Politicians 1% 1196 votes

Judges 4% 8479 votes

Parents 22% 47346 votes

Husband 73% 154304 votes

I fail to see why that matters. Most people are answering these polls not knowing the things I listed earlier.

 

Polls :rolly

[JUGGERNAUT]

I fail to see why that matters.    Most people are answering these polls not knowing the things I listed earlier.

 

Polls  :rolly

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not only that, but how many r-t-l supporters are likely to visit CNN to begin with?

http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

[Steff]

I fail to see why that matters.    Most people are answering these polls not knowing the things I listed earlier.

 

Polls  :rolly

 

 

 

I dunno if it matters regarding anything.. Just thought I would post it for interested parties.

 

 

Also.. and interesting FYI.. the Dr who claims she might be mis-diagnosed.. didn't even examine her to come to that conclusion. Some real talented doctors down there in Florida...

[mreye]

Not only that, but how many r-t-l supporters are likely to visit CNN to begin with?

http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

Good point.

[Rex Kickass]

Not only that, but how many r-t-l supporters are likely to visit CNN to begin with?

http://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/healthdi...ving_will_d&a=t

 

So its not enough to demonize the husband, now you demonize a network viewership. Classy.

[Steff]

Good point. 

 

 

And what point might that be... ?

[mreye]

So its not enough to demonize the husband, now you demonize a network viewership. Classy.

I took it as a joke. I thought it was funny because it's probably more on the true side.

[Steff]

So its not enough to demonize the husband, now you demonize a network viewership. Classy.

 

 

 

Consider the source..

[Rex Kickass]

I took it as a joke. I thought it was funny because it's probably more on the true side.

 

He makes it sound like everyone that watches CNN is in a death cult or something. It'd be funny if you said it probably, because you have a demonstrated sense of humor. Sadly, I doubt juggs is kidding.

[mreye]

And what point might that be... ?

See below

[mreye]

He makes it sound like everyone that watches CNN is in a death cult or something. It'd be funny if you said it probably, because you have a demonstrated sense of humor. Sadly, I doubt juggs is kidding.

Point taken.

[Steff]

Maybe these people have a few more brain cells than those idots that visit CNN.Com..

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/s...d=599622&page=2

 

 

 

Should Feeding Tube Be Removed?

 

 

Support Oppose

 

 

 

Non-evangelical 77% 18

 

 

 

Evangelical 46 44

 

 

 

Catholics 63 26

 

 

 

Liberals 68 24

 

 

 

Moderates 69 22

 

 

 

Conservatives 54 40

 

 

 

 

 

 

Democrats 65 25

 

 

 

Independents 63 28

 

 

 

Republicans 61 34

 

 

 

Conservative Reps. 55 40

 

 

That's an average of 62.1 supporting the removal.

[Rex Kickass]

http://www.slate.com/id/2115218/

[Steff]

Judge ruled DCFS needs to keep their noses out of it also.

 

Good news IMO.. they can't even keep track of all the children they are responsible for aor keep the ones they do know about safe from abusive foster parents.

[Texsox]

From CNN.Com - 3:32pm Central time

 

Who should decide Terry's fate?

 

Politicians 1% 1196 votes

Judges 4% 8479 votes

Parents 22% 47346 votes

Husband 73% 154304 votes

 

I don't know how some people define husband or wife, but I don't consider someone living with his girlfriend and two kids as married in any real sense. But I'm old fashioned. If the option was ex-spouse, I wonder how many votes that would get? While I agree I would want my wife to make this decision, that presupposes, she is still married to me in a real sense. Maybe it's just me, but I could not imagine walking away from my wife in this condition.

[Texsox]

Maybe these people have a few more brain cells than those idots that visit CNN.Com.. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/s...d=599622&page=2

Should Feeding Tube Be Removed? 

Support Oppose

Non-evangelical 77% 18

Evangelical 46 44

Catholics 63 26

Liberals 68 24

Moderates 69 22

Conservatives 54 40

Democrats 65 25

Independents 63 28

Republicans 61 34

Conservative Reps. 55 40

That's an average of 62.1 supporting the removal.

 

Steff, is there a column for people that support her right to die, believe she should die, but her ex-husband shouldn't be the one making the decision? If her parents wanted the feeding tube removed and her husband was blocking it, would you still support the husband?

 

Edit, let me ask this a different way.

 

Are you supporting her dying as the best course or are you supporting her husbands right to decide? I think there are two issues here.

Edited March 23, 2005 by Texsox

[Steff]

Steff, is there a column for people that support her right to die, believe she should die, but her ex-husband shouldn't be the one making the decision? If her parents wanted the feeding tube removed and her husband was blocking it, would you still support the husband?

 

 

I posted the link... I dont' recall seeing an option that you are asking about.

 

Nope. In her condition I support it being removed.

 

It's not about supporting her husband.. or the parents for me. I think both sides are acting like idots on this matter.

[Steff]

Edit, let me ask this a different way.

 

Are you supporting her dying as the best course or are you supporting her husbands right to decide? I think there are two issues here.

 

 

I assumed.. and answered.