Contreras and El Duque

[wdson01]

I agree. I would give up whatever it took to get Oswalt, Clemens, or a for sure healthy Schmidt. Ditto for Lidge. Lilly doesn't make much sense to me. We need another pitcher and whoever it is needs to be dominating. If we got any of those guys I would really like our chances.

why should be trade away our already thinning farm system for a fouth ace??? we need solid 4th or 5th starter which gives us the capability to put either contreras or el duque into the bullpen and prevents us from needing to bring up mccarthy anytime el duque needs a rest.

[Balta1701]

You know...I'm betting we get 1 good start from McCarthy or 1 good start from El Duque or 1 good start from Contreras and these "we need a starting pitcher" threads will suddenly disappear.

 

Every pitcher (not named Mark Buehrle) goes through ups and downs. I think the up swings on our current guys are worth the down swings.

[Middle Buffalo]

At this point, El Duque is the #4 and Contreras is basically the #5. All we need is for Contreras to eat up some innings for the rest of the season. Hernandez needs to get his arm right for the playoffs. If he has a good September, the Sox will give him playoff starts. Otherwise, it's MB, Garcia and Garland. Not bad. It would be nice to have Duque's experience, though.

[3E8]

I definately would feel better if we picked up another ace.

You make it seem like they grow on trees.

[Antonio Osuna]

why should be trade away our already thinning farm system for a fouth ace???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because this is our only chance for decades to win the World Series. You only start out 50-22 once in a lifetime.

 

I'll be angry if Uncle Jerry blows it. I don't think too many Sox fans will disagree.

[Antonio Osuna]

we need solid 4th or 5th starter which gives us the capability to put either contreras or el duque into the bullpen and prevents us from needing to bring up mccarthy anytime el duque needs a rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Garland and one of conde/duque will provide all the 4/5 we need if we acquire another ace, and both the loser of the 5 spot and McCarthy will be available in the pen.

 

For the playoffs, we are going to need to win games when the back end of the rotation is pitching. If we have a real ace in the #3 hole, we can do a lot of damage. Oh, and for those of you (like myself) who violently reply to any post containing the word playoffs with "It's just June, we haven't won anything!", another Ace will be oh-so-helpful in keeping the rising Twinkies down.

[VAfan]

I wonder what we would do with Contreras and/or El Duque if we did acquire a 4th ace in a trade. Neither fit in the bullpen. I can't imagine us just eating their contracts. Any chance any team would take Contreras and the same $3 million the Yankees gave us as part of the trade? This wouldn't solve the #5 hole, but it might keep the balance sheet in better shape for next year.

[southsideirish71]

Boston most likely will be in the playoffs. And do you really want the count going up against a team that he has s*** the bed pretty much every time he has faced them.

[nitetrain8601]

Because this is our only chance for decades to win the World Series. You only start out 50-22 once in a lifetime.

 

I'll be angry if Uncle Jerry blows it. I don't think too many Sox fans will disagree.

 

And you do realize that 4th ace will only start 2 max games in the playoffs? Another ace isn't needed. It's a luxury.

[nitetrain8601]

Garland and one of conde/duque will provide all the 4/5 we need if we acquire another ace, and both the loser of the 5 spot and McCarthy will be available in the pen.

 

For the playoffs, we are going to need to win games when the back end of the rotation is pitching. If we have a real ace in the #3 hole, we can do a lot of damage. Oh, and for those of you (like myself) who violently reply to any post containing the word playoffs with "It's just June, we haven't won anything!", another Ace will be oh-so-helpful in keeping the rising Twinkies down.

 

Again, they would start 2 games max in the playoffs. So the 4th and 5th starters will be available in the pen regardless.

[SoxFan1]

Exactly. But we will hear about it until the deadline, alot.

A lot.....2 words.

[southsideirish71]

And you do realize that 4th ace will only start 2 max games in the playoffs? Another ace isn't needed. It's a luxury.

 

Well we have a possible 4th starter in Conteras who s***s himself everytime he sniffs Fenway.

 

or

 

We have another guy who had a 5.40 ERA in the playoffs last year. He was hitting 88-90 on the gun. This year he is hitting 84-85 and has been on the DL now twice.

 

I keep forgetting where starts in the playoffs are throw aways because they only happen a few times.

[ZoomSlowik]

We don't need to trade for Jason Schmidt or Roger Clemens. You're basically going to use 3 guys through most of the playoffs, with one, maybe two starts for the 4th guy. For a 4th starter, Contreras works. Considering he would probably be facing the other team's 4th starter like Miller/Wakefield, Wang, or whatever scrub Baltimore or Texas throw out there, I wouldn't worrry that much. LA is the only team with a credible 4th starter, but it'd probably be Bird (doing better than he should right now) unless Escobar gets his s*** together, which doesn't seem likely.

[southsideirish71]

We don't need to trade for Jason Schmidt or Roger Clemens. You're basically going to use 3 guys through most of  the playoffs, with one, maybe two starts for the 4th guy. For a 4th starter, Contreras works. Considering he would probably be facing the other team's 4th starter like Miller/Wakefield, Wang, or whatever scrub Baltimore or Texas throw out there, I wouldn't worrry that much. LA is the only team with a credible 4th starter, but it'd probably be Bird (doing better than he should right now) unless Escobar gets his s*** together, which doesn't seem likely.

 

Oontreras against the Redsox? Good lord. He s***s himself everytime you mention Fenway.

[nitetrain8601]

Oontreras against the Redsox?  Good lord.  He s***s himself everytime you mention Fenway.

 

He's a different pitcher now. Despite 2 really bad starts, he's still a damn good 4th starter who matches up with almost anyone else's #4. I think too many people on this board have gotten spoiled by what they got from Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland thus far that they think a whole pitching staff should pitch the same. That's not the case and is very unrealistic. I'm not saying Contreras won't get rocked, but it's not safe to assume he will either. Ask the Yankees if they would trade back for Contreras, I guarentee you they would say yeah.

[ZoomSlowik]

Oontreras against the Redsox?  Good lord.  He s***s himself everytime you mention Fenway.

 

Assuming we even face the Red Sox, he'd probably pitch game 2, meaning it'd be at the Cell.

[VAfan]

Well we have a possible 4th starter in Conteras who s***s himself everytime he sniffs Fenway.

 

or

 

We have another guy who had a 5.40 ERA in the playoffs last year.  He was hitting 88-90 on the gun.  This year he is hitting 84-85 and has been on the DL now twice. 

 

I keep forgetting where starts in the playoffs are throw aways because they only happen a few times.

 

The playoffs are not throwaways, but you have to consider the marginal value of mortgaging the farm for pitchers - like AJ Burnett or Jason Schmidt - who we cannot possibly fit in our salary structure next year unless some team will take Contreras or El Duque off our hands.

 

Would you give AJ Burnett the money we would need to sign Paul Konerko and Frank Thomas next year? The guy has only twice pitched 150 innings or more.

 

And Jason Schmidt is a power pitcher coming off an injury that sapped his velocity.

 

I want to win the WS as much as anyone, but I also want us to win the AL Central more often than once every 5 years.

[VAfan]

Of course the solution to our 4th playoff starter problem is:

 

El Contreduque

 

Any chance we could just split every 4th game between them??

 

The trouble would be figuring out which one to have start the game!

Edited June 28, 2005 by VAfan

[Kalapse]

Of course the solution to our 4th playoff starter problem is:

 

El Contreduque

 

Any chance we could just split every 4th game between them??

 

The trouble would be figuring out which one to have start the game! 

You could have Contreras go 4 or 5 and then have Duke piggyback him.

 

Usually Contreras is pretty solid through the first 6 and gets hit hard in the 7th.

[nitetrain8601]

Of course the solution to our 4th playoff starter problem is:

 

El Contreduque

 

Any chance we could just split every 4th game between them??

 

The trouble would be figuring out which one to have start the game! 

 

I was actually thinking that earlier in the year if they needed to pitch a playoff game(as in start). Both go 4 and then you have Hermy in for the save.