I was ecstatic at first when it was Duque and Young. I love Young, but Vazquez is worth it.

 

The Vizcaino addition leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though I can't remember a time in 2005 where I said "Vizcaino is pitching? AWESOME."

 

It'd be a very good idea to make a move for a bullpen arm or two. What are we left with?

 

Jenks

Cotts

Pollitte

Hermanson (major back issues)

 

Uhh... and McCarthy it looks like. What the hell? Who am I missing? Yeah, we'll be needing some help.

Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm. Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing. We had 6 bullpen arms that were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz. Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year. If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

how and why is there no trust with BMac being the 5th starter?

Basically imo, we've lost one solid bullpen arm.  Damaso was horrendous last year, the Duke is being replaced by Brandon as of right now which is an upgrade, and then there is viz who we are losing.  We had 6 bullpen arms that  were mainstays in the pen last year in: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, Damaso, and Viz.  Now we have: Bobby, Neal, Dustin, Cliff, and Brandon, so that's 1 arm short from last year.  If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

 

See, that's where we have our differences. You think Garland stays....I don't think there's a chance in hell he's on the White Sox next season. Thus, your scenario has McCarthy in the pen, which is a real asset. However, I think McCarthy will be in the starting rotation, and our bullpen will be weaker. I also highly doubt Baj has impressed Ozzie enough to make the roster. I know it's a short stint he's had, but Ozzie's the type of guy to form an impression based on a short period.

Yeah, I fixed that problem. Typed too quickly and didn't bother to proofread before I posted. 

 

I'll hold out hope the financial details of the trade have yet to be released. We didn't know Vizcaino was included until nearly two hours after intitial news surfaced. If Arizona truly isn't paying ANY portion of Vazquez's deal, then Williams deserves to be heavily criticized. World Series or not, you still have to be a sensible general manager.

 

EDIT: I didn't notice the link posted above by SSH. Until the exact figures are released, I'll hold judgement.

You wanted him to be criticized after the deadline as well for only trading for Blum and we all know how that turned out. Just let the guy do his thing, no offense flash but I think he knows a little bit more then you and I. You even said before you wouldn't judge any of Kenny's moves before knowing what comes after, yet you seem already to jump all over him for this. You seem to like bashing him for some reason.

Hopefully, we are getting that $6 million that the Yankees sent the Diamondbacks.

 

 

-$4.5 million (El Duque's 2006 salary)

-$1.3 million (Vizcaino's 2005 salary; will earn a bit more via arbitration)

---------------

-$5.8 million total

 

 

+$11.5 million (Vazquez's 2006 salary)

- $3.0 million (from Diamondbacks; originally from Yankees)

---------------

+$8.5 million total - $5.8 million = +$2.7 million added to 2006 payroll

 

 

+$12.5 million (Vazquez's 2007 salary)

- $3.0 million (from Diamondbacks; originally from Yankees)

---------------

+$9.5 million total added to 2007 payroll

 

 

So if we get that $3 million in 2006 and 2007 from the Diamondbacks that they got from the Yankees, Vazquez will add $2.7 million to our 2006 payroll and $9.5 million to our 2007 payroll.

Edited December 14, 200520 yr by SSH2005

See, that's where we have our differences.  You think Garland stays....I don't think there's a chance in hell he's on the White Sox next season.  Thus, your scenario has McCarthy in the pen, which is a real asset.  However, I think McCarthy will be in the starting rotation, and our bullpen will be weaker.  I also highly doubt Baj has impressed Ozzie enough to make the roster.  I know it's a short stint he's had, but Ozzie's the type of guy to form an impression based on a short period.

To be honest fathom, I don't know what to expect anymore.

I have one question: Why the hell was this done?

 

Garland for Vazquez makes about a thousand times more sense for both teams. This trade leaves me scratching my head.

To be honest fathom, I don't know what to expect anymore.

 

Yep, and that's why this is fun. What's the worst thing that happens....we don't repeat? Even if they struggle next season, it won't negate from the 2005 experience that we just went through.

I have one question: Why the hell was this done?

 

Garland for Vazquez makes about a thousand times more sense for both teams. This trade leaves me scratching my head.

 

Makes a lot of sense for DBacks, as they add a super prospect to their already loaded farm system. I think we'll know why the Sox did this move in about 10 days.

I think we'll know why the Sox did this move in about 10 days.

 

right on

Well this just makes me excited to see what the next move will be because you know there is a big deal coming!

If we keep Garland and use McCarthy as our long reliever/spot starter, we would only need to add a lefty if we went with an 11-man pitching staff.

Edited December 14, 200520 yr by SSH2005

Kenny can't hear the doubters.....he's got a ring stuck in his ear that is keeping the sound away.

 

But seriously guys, trust Kenny. He took us to the promised land, and will do it again. And also, I think Duque may be getting a bit overvalued due to his Boston performance. He was hurt a lot last year, his regular season ERA blowed (and the only reason his record was decent was run support) and he's a well paid 45 year old. Giving up him, a serviceable arm, and a minor leaguer for Vasquez isn't all that bad (as long as we are getting money back, which we are).

 

IMO Garland is next for an outfieder, and I like the way this team sets up to try and repeat.

Kenny can't hear the doubters.....he's got a ring stuck in his ear that is keeping the sound away.

 

But seriously guys, trust Kenny.  He took us to the promised land, and will do it again.  And also, I think Duque may be getting a bit overvalued due to his Boston performance.  He was hurt a lot last year, his regular season ERA blowed (and the only reason his record was decent was run support) and he's a well paid 45 year old.  Giving up him, a serviceable arm, and a minor leaguer for Vasquez isn't all that bad (as long as we are getting money back, which we are).

 

IMO Garland is next for an outfieder, and I like the way this team sets up to try and repeat.

 

I think you'll find that almost every poster on this site is thrilled to get rid of Duque and his contract. The tougher pill to swallow is giving up Chris Young. He was by far our most talented minor league prospect. Oh well, next season, it's time for Ryan Sweeney to put up or shut up.

Makes a lot of sense for DBacks, as they add a super prospect to their already loaded farm system.  I think we'll know why the Sox did this move in about 10 days.

 

Okay, so they add to a strength and subtract from a weakness, just like the Sox did. As of now, dumb move IMO. If there's a pen arm + spec for Garland deal on the back end, good move.

You made my point for me....he's a PROSPECT. Kenny doesn't give a rat's ass about some prospect, who knows if he'll even be any good in the majors?? Kenny has shown that he will deal prospects to help improve the MLB ballclub, and it's worked out for him. So relax, have a beer, watching the World Series DVD. It's all good.

If the Sox want to have 12 pitchers then fine, I'd honestly have no problem with Baj getting that 12th slot as long as one other quality reliever is brought in.

 

I would have a problem with Baj. He gave up a HR to Hafner last season which is still orbiting Earth. Baj is a two pitch pitcher with neither pitch being very good.

 

I'd only accept his role as mopup if the quality pitcher we received was an absolute stud. But here's the problem: any quality reliever obtained by the Sox would have to be from a trade. None of the free agent pitches are suitable replacements. Well, now I ask who would be our trade bait? Which player is expendable? This person would have to be good enough to net a quality reliever in return. Garland is the person . And if you trade Garland, receive your bullpen arm, it now pushes McCarthy back into the rotation. Now you have ANOTHER open spot in the bullpen.

 

I believe Williams exposed one division of an upcoming move by including Vizcaino. Garland will be traded for, at the least, one reliever capably of substituting Viz or Marte.

I have one question: Why the hell was this done?

 

Garland for Vazquez makes about a thousand times more sense for both teams. This trade leaves me scratching my head.

dont worry old ob-1... your head will be easied in apromaxatly 8 months!

I don't even want to think of the horrible season El Duque will have next year when that Arizona air makes his breaking stuff lifeless.

I believe Williams exposed one division of an upcoming move by including Vizcaino. Garland will be traded for, at the least, one reliever capably of substituting Viz or Marte.

So garland for a reliever straight up. better be gagne.

Unless KW makes another move involving one of our starters..... I do not like this trade at all...

but mommie.... i dont want to go to school!

I'm still not sure why everybody hates this trade?? Is it the money?? Because otherwise, you hate giving up an injury prone, 45 year old pitcher making 5 mill a year, a prospect, and an average 30 year old bullpen arm for a 28 year old pitcher who has shown he can be very good when not in New York or air that kills a breaking ball.

 

I just don't get it......unless it's the money, as for that, wait and see, apparently we are getting some dough in this deal...

Anyone else think an Abreu deal is forthcoming? I don't know why, I just have a feeling it might happen. The Sox are pretty much the only team that has what they want.