I was almost positive Granderson must have hurt himself on that inside the park homer..luckily he didn't. It was nice to see Colon pitch well, and Inge made a nice play at 3rd.

Edited July 26, 200619 yr by Bonderman38

Detroit puts a 3 spot on Captain Cheeseburger in the 6th inning. Verlander with a shutout through 5. 3-0 Detroit.

 

I was almost positive Granderson must have hurt himself on that inside the park homer..luckily he didn't. It was nice to see Colon pitch well, and Inge made a nice play at 3rd.

Granderson out of the lineup today, but inserted in the bottom of the 6th.

Edited July 26, 200619 yr by Balta1701

Nice to see Detroit and Minnesota having faith in using their young stud pitchers in their starting rotation. Ours (McCarthy) will rot away in the bullpen while guys like Vazquez continue to stink it up.

This thread has died faster than the second-half Sox.

 

Sorry to the Tiger fans who were expecting a competitive, exciting race to the finish. Perhaps the Twins will make things interesting for you because an Ozzie Guillen-managed Sox team sure won't.

Um, so when is Verlander supposed to fade again?

Um, so when is Verlander supposed to fade again?

 

When the Tigers start playing real teams.

44-11 is the Tigers record vs losing AL teams and in interleague play.

 

24-22 is the Tigers record vs AL teams with winning records. For how bad the Sox have played recently, they are still 30-24 vs AL teams with winning records.

 

If the Tigers don't improve vs winning teams they will be in trouble pretty quick. They have 32 out of 35 games vs winning teams from August 7th to September 13th.

44-11 is the Tigers record vs losing AL teams and in interleague play.

 

24-22 is the Tigers record vs AL teams with winning records. For how bad the Sox have played recently, they are still 30-24 vs AL teams with winning records.

 

If the Tigers don't improve vs winning teams they will be in trouble pretty quick. They have 32 out of 35 games vs winning teams from August 7th to September 13th.

detroit had a 3-7 week-and-a-half in late may/early june, against teams that at the time were able to get into the tigers' heads. the season was young and the team was as surprised at its early success as the rest of the world. include the 0-3 sweep by a differently performing cws back in april and the tigers showed 3-10 against teams with winning records early on. back out that bad stretch and the tigers have been 21-12 against the best.

 

this series against the twins is the tough test in my book. playing minnie at their place has not been easy for anyone the past few years. the rotation for that series is miner, robertson, bonderman. miner against liriano is almost a certain loss, although the tigers' record against lefties is really good. the other two could go either way.

 

this is maturing tigers team. i don't see the yankees or red sox having anywhere near the same psychological advantage over the late 2006 tigers.

 

feel free to bash me for playing with numbers - i certainly would, albeit quietly and to myself. :7)

detroit had a 3-7 week-and-a-half in late may/early june, against teams that at the time were able to get into the tigers' heads. the season was young and the team was as surprised at its early success as the rest of the world. include the 0-3 sweep by a differently performing cws back in april and the tigers showed 3-10 against teams with winning records early on. back out that bad stretch and the tigers have been 21-12 against the best.

 

this series against the twins is the tough test in my book. playing minnie at their place has not been easy for anyone the past few years. the rotation for that series is miner, robertson, bonderman. miner against liriano is almost a certain loss, although the tigers' record against lefties is really good. the other two could go either way.

 

this is maturing tigers team. i don't see the yankees or red sox having anywhere near the same psychological advantage over the late 2006 tigers.

 

feel free to bash me for playing with numbers - i certainly would, albeit quietly and to myself. :7)

 

I couldn't have said it better. I'm tired of hearing how "The tigers haven't played well against teams with a winning record".

 

I think that will change. This weekend will be tough. The baseball world will see two hot teams clash.

back out that bad stretch and the tigers have been 21-12 against the best.

So I guess the Sox can back out these last 2 weeks at the end of the year.

So I guess the Sox can back out these last 2 weeks at the end of the year.

 

I for one believe that the Tigers will be seeing the White Sox challenging for the Division Title before the end of the year.

 

Slumps come and go. Good teams work through them.

detroit had a 3-7 week-and-a-half in late may/early june, against teams that at the time were able to get into the tigers' heads. the season was young and the team was as surprised at its early success as the rest of the world. include the 0-3 sweep by a differently performing cws back in april and the tigers showed 3-10 against teams with winning records early on. back out that bad stretch and the tigers have been 21-12 against the best.

 

this series against the twins is the tough test in my book. playing minnie at their place has not been easy for anyone the past few years. the rotation for that series is miner, robertson, bonderman. miner against liriano is almost a certain loss, although the tigers' record against lefties is really good. the other two could go either way.

 

this is maturing tigers team. i don't see the yankees or red sox having anywhere near the same psychological advantage over the late 2006 tigers.

 

feel free to bash me for playing with numbers - i certainly would, albeit quietly and to myself. :7)

 

So let's take out every game since the all-star break and the Sox are 26 games above .500! There's a reason you play the games.

Yep, we're only 2 games over .500 against the good teams....

 

Wait isn't the old saying that you beat up the on the bad teams and split with the good ones?

 

Um, so when is Verlander supposed to fade again?

 

The same time Liriano does.

Um, so when is Verlander supposed to fade again?

He's right about at 130 innings this season. That's about the most he's ever pitched in his career. After right now, you start having the risk with him go up. He may be able to do this for 230 innings, but the Tigers IMO would be really gambling if they tried to ride him every 5th day throughout the whole of the postseason. Think Orel Herschiser in 88, the Dodgers rode him like a horse to a world series ring, but he never really was the same after that.

Yep, we're only 2 games over .500 against the good teams....

 

Wait isn't the old saying that you beat up the on the bad teams and split with the good ones?

 

Oh yes, and our team's inability to get it done against Kansas City early on has cost.

Um, so when is Verlander supposed to fade again?

 

Well he just went over 130 innings pitched in his last start, so I'm guessing before he thows his next pitch BAM spontaneous human combustion.

Well he just went over 130 innings pitched in his last start, so I'm guessing before he thows his next pitch BAM spontaneous human combustion.

Verlander could probably be ridden throughout the whole season if the Tigers decide they need to do so. But I still think they run a real big risk of turning him into another Mark Prior if they do.

 

If they're smart, in about 3-4 starts, if Verlander is still going strong, they sit him down and tell him they're putting him on the 15 day DL and he's going to take 3 starts off. It'd help if they could get Maroth back at some point and have him fill in, but having him pitch 230+ innings in the regular season and playoffs this year, when he's only pitched 130 before, is a bigger risk than going to Vegas and betting on the Cubs in 07.

How about we name a few pitchers in the past 10 years who threw ~200 innings in their first full season in the bigs or even their second full season, either one. No seriously how many can you think of off the top of your head?

How about we name a few pitchers who threw ~200 innings in their first full season in the bigs or even their second full season, either one. No seriously how many can you think of off the top of your head?

Mark Prior.

Mark Prior.

Kerry Wood

Jason Jennings

Rick Ankiel

Roy Oswalt

Captain Cheesburger

Kaz Ishii

Damian Moss

Ryan Jenson

Josh Fogg

Jason Simontacchi

Rodrigo Lopez (197 IP)

More Recent

Dontrelle Willis

Brandon Webb (soft tosser)

Jeriome Robertson

Daniel Cabrera

Zach Greinke

Last Year

Gustavo Chacin (203)

Joe Blanton (201)

Scott Kazmir (186)

Jeff Francis (184)

 

That was just real quick, in the past 6 years all of them threw 130+ in either their 1st or 2nd year and were under 26/25 years old at the time.

Buerhle went 221.1 in 2001 which was essentially his first year as an MLB starter

Mark Prior.

You all want to harp on the Tigers because of their record vs. winning teams....that’s fine.

 

However, if you are going to do that, I will show you a stat that is much more indicative of their success:

 

 

 

Tigers road record 35-16

 

Next best road record in the majors:

 

NY Mets 30-20

NY Yanks 28-22

 

Central Road records:

 

Tigers 35-16

Pale Hoe's 25-22

Twinkies 22-30

Kerry Wood

Jason Jennings

Rick Ankiel

Roy Oswalt

Captain Cheesburger

Kaz Ishii

Damian Moss

Ryan Jenson

Josh Fogg

Jason Simontacchi

Rodrigo Lopez (197 IP)

More Recent

Dontrelle Willis

Brandon Webb (soft tosser)

Jeriome Robertson

Daniel Cabrera

Zach Greinke

Last Year

Gustavo Chacin (203)

Joe Blanton (201)

Scott Kazmir (186)

Jeff Francis (184)

 

That was just real quick, in the past 6 years all of them threw 130+ in either their 1st or 2nd year and were under 26/25 years old at the time.

Bunch of points in reply.

 

First, the question wasn't if they threw 130+ innings, it was whether they threw 200+ innings.

 

Secondly, and here's the real key IMO; a lot of those guys warmed up on their way to 200 innings, they didn't just jump from 130 to 230.

 

Kazmir jumped from 134 to 186. D-Train threw 157 in 02 in the minors, then 197, then 197, then 236. Chacin threw 165 innings in 04 before throwing his 203 in 05. Jeff Francis threw 160 in 03, 200 between the minors and the big leagues in 04, and 184 in 05. Joe Blanton went 178 to 184 to 201. So a lot of these guys have had a couple years to build up their innings, they aren't always just thrown into the fire in pushing 230 innings their first year after throwing 130 the year before.

 

And another thing, it's probably worth noting how many injuries you have showing up on that list above, or either a combination of injuries and mysterious falling-backs in performance. And those are for guys making less of a jump than Verlander will have to do if they don't sit him down for a while

You all want to harp on the Tigers because of their record vs. winning teams....that’s fine.

 

However, if you are going to do that, I will show you a stat that is much more indicative of their success:

Tigers road record 35-16

 

Next best road record in the majors:

 

NY Mets 30-20

NY Yanks 28-22

 

Central Road records:

 

Tigers 35-16

Pale Hoe's 25-22

Twinkies 22-30

Why come on here and say spiff like this? Pale Hoe's? Hopefully you arent too tied to being able to post here anymore.

You all want to harp on the Tigers because of their record vs. winning teams....that’s fine.

 

However, if you are going to do that, I will show you a stat that is much more indicative of their success:

Tigers road record 35-16

 

I don't think anyone was trying to create a stat that was indicative of the Tigers success. Much the opposite in reality. They were identifying weaknesses of Detroit that may provide some optimism that a ChiSox pennant chase is still a strong possibility. Whether you believe it will matter or not, Detroit's schedule toughens up considerably for the next few weeks.