Felix Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) Someday I'll finally understand why this perception of him is so strong amoungst Sox fans when it's really not true. He's no Aaron Rowand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(UC76 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 01:27 PM) Personally, I've been a little disappointed with Thome in the clutch. So many of his home runs are solo shots in the the fourth inning or something like that. Which is awesome, don't get me wrong. But it seems like he's come up short with runners on in close games in late innings on several occasions. The other night when he came up against the Yanks in the the 9th, the first thing I thought was, "Uh oh, groundout to second coming up right here." Hopefully, he'll improve in the clutch department. Just my .02. Yes like when he took Johan Santana deep in the bottom of the 6th earlier this year when he was dominating the Sox' offense, when he picked up the only hit off Anthony Reyes in a 1-0 win in late June or his pinch hit HR to tie the game at PNC earlier this year. Hell, he had one of the biggest ABs of the series in game 1 Vs the yankees when he drew the crucial walk in the 11th to move the eventual winning run into scoring position. There's about 5-6 other HUGE HRs he's hit this year that I could also mention but I guess I'll just leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 It's just as simple as this. Tie game, must-win, bottom of the ninth...who do you want up? For me, it's sure as heck Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 01:56 PM) It's just as simple as this. Tie game, must-win, bottom of the ninth...who do you want up? For me, it's sure as heck Crede. Bingo, I agree. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?ac...ost&id=5302 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 01:34 PM) Yes like when he took Johan Santana deep in the bottom of the 6th earlier this year when he was dominating the Sox' offense, when he picked up the only hit off Anthony Reyes in a 1-0 win in late June or his pinch hit HR to tie the game at PNC earlier this year. Hell, he had one of the biggest ABs of the series in game 1 Vs the yankees when he drew the crucial walk in the 11th to move the eventual winning run into scoring position. There's about 5-6 other HUGE HRs he's hit this year that I could also mention but I guess I'll just leave it at that. That's the problem though Kalapse, you and I (I agree with you) could never win this argument. People think clutch HAS to be very late in the game, with it tied or the team down, and that's it. A homer in the 5th or 6th can be clutch, or just as important, as one in the 9th to be honest. Plus, nobody will ever consider walks clutch. It's just an argument you can't win. Now obviously Thome isn't our best clutch hitter, but he's not this choking bum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 01:56 PM) It's just as simple as this. Tie game, must-win, bottom of the ninth...who do you want up? For me, it's sure as heck Crede. I don't really think anyone is going to disagree with you. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 02:06 PM) That's the problem though Kalapse, you and I (I agree with you) could never win this argument. People think clutch HAS to be very late in the game, with it tied or the team down, and that's it. A homer in the 5th or 6th can be clutch, or just as important, as one in the 9th to be honest. Plus, nobody will ever consider walks clutch. It's just an argument you can't win. Now obviously Thome isn't our best clutch hitter, but he's not this choking bum. Eggsactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Winning Ugly @ Aug 10, 2006 -> 07:50 PM) Man I was thinking about this last night as I watched Thome ground out. I listed the exact four on the list, and man it's almost too close to call really. Tadahito has had some HUGE clutch abs in games this year, as has Paulie and JD, but Crede stands out more. Thome hasn't been clutch for us at all this season. in fact, I don't think he has many RBIs this year that occurred after the 6th inning. Whoa be careful saying Thome is not clutch around here. I got grilled last time I said that. But I feel better now because I have watched the same thing this year from him. Including last night. I guess Im not crazy ANd that was exactly what I meant when talking about clutch. HR's or big hits after 6 0r 7th. Not a homer in the 1st or third that turned out to be a beneficial in the end. QUOTE(Heads22 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 06:56 PM) It's just as simple as this. Tie game, must-win, bottom of the ninth...who do you want up? For me, it's sure as heck Crede. That is exactly what clutch means. And I would put JT at the bottom of that list for clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 02:14 PM) Whoa be careful saying Thome is not clutch around here. I got grilled last time I said that. But I feel better now because I have watched the same thing this year from him. Including last night. I guess Im not crazy ANd that was exactly what I meant when talking about clutch. HR's or big hits after 6 0r 7th. Not a homer in the 1st or third that turned out to be a beneficial in the end. That is exactly what clutch means. And I would put JT at the bottom of that list for clutch It's the majority of people who think he's unclutch, they're right there with you. I and a few others are the ones who should be questioning our sanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 03:14 PM) That is exactly what clutch means. And I would put JT at the bottom of that list for clutch No, clutch is a "tense, critical situation" according to Dictionary.com From that definition, a clutch situation could be as early as the first inning or as late as the last (whichever inning that may be). Any time runners are in scoring position, especially with two outs, it is a clutch situation. Anytime your team is down 1-0 in the eighth inning with the dominant closer coming in the next inning is a clutch situation. There are too many different situations that are clutch for you to make a blanket statement about how clutch Thome is or isn't, just because he doesn't hit 9th inning homeruns every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I honestly couldn't vote. I say its a dead 3 way tie between Dye, Pauly and Crede. They all seem to have different cluch roles however. For instance: Dye seems to always get that game winning hit Gooch seems to always ignite the offense to begin a rally Pauly seems to always tie the game up in the 9th or put the team ahead in the 7th or 8th with a big homerun. Crede is just straight up clutch in the 7th 8th and 9th innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Let's just say this. I don't want Thome batting in the 9th with or without a runner on base in a close (2-3 runs) game. I love having him bat at any other point, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 And a lot of the deal with Thome is that opposing managers often bring in a LOOGY, neutralizing him. Changes are rarely made for Crede, so he doesn't have to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 What inning do you suppose Jim Thome hits the majority of his HRs in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Pasqua's Rec Specs Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 10:17 PM) What inning do you suppose Jim Thome hits the majority of his HRs in? So If someone answers this. Let me guess you will throw some obscure statistic back? How about you answer the question. Would you have like to see Jim Thome come to the plate 9th inning, 2 outs, down by one with a runner on 3rd? Im sure I know your answer and that could be why you are in a minority on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 QUOTE(Dan Pasqua @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 06:03 PM) So If someone answers this. Let me guess you will throw some obscure statistic back? How about you answer the question. Would you have like to see Jim Thome come to the plate 9th inning, 2 outs, down by one with a runner on 3rd? Im sure I know your answer and that could be why you are in a minority on this one He's hit 6 HRs in the 8th innning this year, I know that's pretty damn obscure so I apologize. I'm in the minority because I'm actually open minded enough to go back and do a little research, he's come up huge this year in clutch situations of course if I listed them all that'd be a waste of time because people would either ignore them or dismiss them for whatever reason. It's cool if you don't think he's clutch. Perhaps we have different definitions, I mean all the s*** I've posted in his favor has already been ignored so I guess I'm just in the wrong here. I'll just leave it at this and move on from the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 It's a good thing Thome hit that meaningless add on homer tonight, just padding his deceptive stats as usual. Dude sucks, I wish we could trade him for Aaron Rowand. He's blue collar and fixes a hole in the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 10:51 PM) It's a good thing Thome hit that meaningless add on homer tonight, just padding his deceptive stats as usual. Dude sucks, I wish we could trade him for Aaron Rowand. He's blue collar and fixes a hole in the outfield. I bet you're being sarcastic. Just a hunch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) I bet you're being sarcastic. Just a hunch though. Wow, your good. Although Crash did have the game winning hit in the 14th tonight for the Phillies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksd Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Aug 11, 2006 -> 12:57 PM) Bingo, I agree. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?ac...ost&id=5302 It's funny how Crede's OBP is lower than his batting average. What is that stat in particular though? 9th and 2 out or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguchicago Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(jenksd @ Aug 12, 2006 -> 01:35 AM) It's funny how Crede's OBP is lower than his batting average. YOU CANT BE ON BASE WHEN YOU JACK GRAND SLAMS Edited August 12, 2006 by Iguchicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 IMO its absolutely Joe Crede, he comes up big on offense and defense when the game is on the line. He seems to have alighator blood. This team does have a few players that come up big in the clutch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 I too have got to go with Joe Crede on this one for what he does with his glove just as much as what he does with his bat. However, I think that clutch hitting as a measurable statistic is largely myth. The sample sizes are usually far too small to legitimately measure, and are far too dependent on other statistics and game situations. Over a career span, a better all-around hitter usually equals a better clutch hitter. The outcome of Game 2 of the ALCS is a perfect example of this. If Pierzynski doesn't capitalize on the dropped third strike, and Pablo Ozuna doesn't steal second, we don't have a baserunner for Joe to drive in. IMO, clutch situations rely far too much on teammates to be in the right place at the right time. Was it a better clutch play on the part of A.J. Pierzynski to get in that situation, to give Escobar a mental shove and shake up the Angels a little bit, or Joe Crede getting the hit? Be all that as it may, the first guy I'd want at the plate is Joe Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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