Garcia to Philly for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez

[southsider2k5]

How silly. I loved the Thome trade. How about that?

 

Hey, its only been a year... Congrats on that.

[SoxHawk1980]

How did this trade not help in 2007?????

I'll try to make this clear yet again. In 2006, we had Garcia in the rotation and BMac as the long reliever/#6 starter. In 2007, we'll have BMac in the rotation and Haeger/Floyd/Tracey as the long reliever/#6 starter. Which is better: Garcia+BMac or BMac+?????. So the trade did not help in 2007.

 

And we don't know how or if the saved $10M is going to spent.

[YASNY]

YASNY, when is the last time you were critical of a Sox move at the time it was made? Ever?

 

Off the top of my head, the Todd Ritchie deal. My question when that trade was announced was "Where is Brian Giles?"

 

However, I must say that I don't just jump in and react without thinking things through. My original reaction to the Garcia trade was negative. But, I didn't post it. I wanted to think it over. I've been a believer in KW since trhe David Wells trade, because it was so anti-Schuler. Wells didn't get back to the playoffs, but in my mind, it was a gutsy move that had the goal of getting us deep into the playoffs. That was so different than what we had seen with Schuler. Since that trade was made, I have given KW the benefit of the doubt because I know that his ulterior motive is to make the team as good as possible for as long as possible. Add to that the fact that he did, in fact, bring us home a WS championship, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt without flying off the handle at each and every that I don't understand at first.

[SoxHawk1980]

Hey, its only been a year... Congrats on that.

I'm working hard on becoming a blind homer who loves every move Kenny makes. I don't think I'm there yet.

[southsider2k5]

I'm working hard on becoming a blind homer who loves every move Kenny makes. I don't think I'm there yet.

 

Well you totally have the "blind" part down. The funny part is you're throwing accusasions around without having a clue as to what I think of the deal.

[YASNY]

I'll add that I didn't like the Durham - Adkins deal. I also had qualms about the original Garcia deal with Seattle because I had been caught up in the Reed hype and like Olivo. However, that one worked out ok.

[SoxHawk1980]

Off the top of my head, the Todd Ritchie deal. My question when that trade was announced was "Where is Brian Giles?"

You haven't been critical of a move the Sox have made for the last 5 years? That says a lot.

 

Well you totally have the "blind" part down. The funny part is you're throwing accusasions around without having a clue as to what I think of the deal.

Actually I didn't throw any accusation at you. Just hyperbole. It is silly to say that I blindly criticize the Sox when I give thoughtful, meaningful, and well supported criticism whenever I do criticize. One can certainly disagree with my criticisms, but they aren't without merit. Nor are they knee-jerk reactions. They are just my opinions, which are as valid as any on here. And, personally, I think they are much more valuable than the people who say, "I love KW, so it must be a good move."

Edited December 7, 2006 by SoxHawk1980

[YASNY]

You haven't been critical of a move the Sox have made for the last 5 years? That says a lot.

Actually I didn't throw any accusation at you. Just hyperbole. It is silly to say that I blindly criticize the Sox when I give thoughtful, meaningful, and well supported criticism whenever I do criticize. One can certainly disagree with my criticisms, but they aren't without merit. Nor are they knee-jerk reactions. They are just my opinions, which are as valid as any on here. And, personally, I think they are much more valuable than the people who say, "I love KW, so it must be a good move."

 

You're response was so f***ing predictable, which is why I came back with a couple of others I wasn't crazy about after my original response. However, you chose to focus on the first 'off the top of my head' remark and use that to belittle me because it had been 5 years. You chose to ignore the entire following paragraph that was an attempt to explain my thinking to you.

 

You're no longer worthy of my time. This discussion is over. Have a f***ing nice day.

[SoxHawk1980]

I'll add that I didn't like the Durham - Adkins deal.

Ok, so it's not 5 years. It's 4 1/2 years.

I also had qualms about the original Garcia deal with Seattle because I had been caught up in the Reed hype and like Olivo. However, that one worked out ok.

4 1/2 years, plus some qualms.

 

It appears that you choose not to be critical of Sox moves. You both hope for the best and assume that it must be good for the organization, with rare exceptions. I tend to critically analyze Sox moves and attempt to objectively figure out if it was good for the team, and if so, how much.

[southsider2k5]

Actually I didn't throw any accusation at you. Just hyperbole. It is silly to say that I blindly criticize the Sox when I give thoughtful, meaningful, and well supported criticism whenever I do criticize. One can certainly disagree with my criticisms, but they aren't without merit. Nor are they knee-jerk reactions. They are just my opinions, which are as valid as any on here. And, personally, I think they are much more valuable than the people who say, "I love KW, so it must be a good move."

 

You have been callling anyone who disagrees with you a blind homer for quite a while now, its not like its anything earth shattering by now. Its just completely played out, and more fit for boards like the MLB boards to be honest. There are pleny of people who don't like deals, but can at least articlulate out their opinions without having to fall back on namecalling people who think differently than you. And personally I believe that when calling someone names is the thrust of anyones arguement, it totally devalues there opinion.

[SoxHawk1980]

Your response was so f***ing predictable, which is why I came back with a couple of others I wasn't crazy about after my original response. However, you chose to focus on the first 'off the top of my head' remark and use that to belittle me because it had been 5 years.

I responded to your post when you posted it. When I read your later post, I responded to that as well.

You chose to ignore the entire following paragraph that was an attempt to explain my thinking to you.

I didn't feel like dissecting why it is that you just assume that everything KW does is good for the Sox. I thought it would be more belittling to point out that it makes little sense to see one trade that you like (the Wells trade) and then assume from that point on that all trades and signings are good ones. To each his own.

Your no longer worthy of my time. This discussion is over. Have a f***ing nice day.

No need to be so unfriendly.

[LVSoxFan]

WHen I woke up and saw the Sun-Times this morning and saw Freddy gone to Philly, I thought: cool, looks like Rowand is back!

 

:( :(

 

Unless this is a setup for another deal coming, this trade makes zero sense to me. For what we got. Am I missing something?

[TheChrisSamsa]

Anyone know what Phillies fans think of this deal?

[YASNY]

I responded to your post when you posted it. When I read your later post, I responded to that as well.

 

I didn't feel like dissecting why it is that you just assume that everything KW does is good for the Sox. I thought it would be more belittling to point out that it makes little sense to see one trade that you like (the Wells trade) and then assume from that point on that all trades and signings are good ones. To each his own.

 

No need to be so unfriendly.

 

I'm done here.

[SoxHawk1980]

You have been callling anyone who disagrees with you a blind homer for quite a while now, its not like its anything earth shattering by now. Its just completely played out, and more fit for boards like the MLB boards to be honest. There are pleny of people who don't like deals, but can at least articlulate out their opinions without having to fall back on namecalling people who think differently than you. And personally I believe that when calling someone names is the thrust of anyones arguement, it totally devalues there opinion.

First of all, in the realm of "calling people names," calling someone a homer is pretty light. Seconf of all, the "thrust of my argument" isn't name calling. The thrust of my argument is reasons I have listed (in detail) of why the trade was bad. I call people homers when they deserve it. When I see people working very hard to convince themselves that a bad deal his team made is actually good one, that is homer thinking overcoming honest, intelligent thinking. It happens.

[iamshack]

Anyone know what Phillies fans think of this deal?

 

They were initially not happy about it, but now seem to be ok with it, especially considering that KW wanted Hirsh in exchange for Garland.

[SoxHawk1980]

WHen I woke up and saw the Sun-Times this morning and saw Freddy gone to Philly, I thought: cool, looks like Rowand is back!

 

:( :(

 

Unless this is a setup for another deal coming, this trade makes zero sense to me. For what we got. Am I missing something?

Nope.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Anyone know what Phillies fans think of this deal?

 

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!" would be my guess...

[SoxHawk1980]

I'm done here.

Ok.

 

Anyone know what Phillies fans think of this deal?

The ones who have posted on this board and the ones I've talked to are overjoyed. I would be too.

[southsideirish71]

Ok.

The ones who have posted on this board and the ones I've talked to are overjoyed. I would be too.

 

 

And when Freddy Garcia is on another team in 08 and they didnt make the playoffs. Are they just as overjoyed.

[SoxHawk1980]

And when Freddy Garcia is on another team in 08 and they didnt make the playoffs. Are they just as overjoyed.

Who knows. This is a great move for them in 2007. They rightfully lost all faith in Floyd. Gio wasn't going to ready for 2-3 years and that is still a maybe. So they got a good starter for a year and didn't have to mortgage their future to get it.

[daa84]

Ok.

The ones who have posted on this board and the ones I've talked to are overjoyed. I would be too.

read some interesting things.....most think floyd is garbage....which is dumb, but i cant blame em for the way he pitched in the bigs....but alot of em are weary of the fact that htey only have garcia under contract for a year, and some feel gio is a slightly lesser version of hammels, and feel thats alot to give up for 1 rental year of freddy...we'll see though...most of em liked it, but i think alot of them are expecting the garcia of 05, and not 06.

[SoxHawk1980]

read some interesting things.....most think floyd is garbage....which is dumb, but i cant blame em for the way he pitched in the bigs...

Unfortunately, it isn't just how he's pitched in the majors. He has 283 AAA innings and his ERA there was 5.24. This guy hasn't succeeded above the AA level...ever. I think the Phils fans know him better than we do.

[daa84]

stat guys love to look at three year trends....lookin at em for garcia....

 

..........04........05........06

 

ERA....3.81.....3.87.....4.54

K/9....7.89.....5.76.....5.61

H/9....8.23.....8.88.....9.49

 

 

i guess this is nothing we didnt know....and it doesnt justify teh poor return we got in the trade, but all of those numbers are pretty alarming and at least validate the fact that brandon at this point is probably a better option for the next 2-3 years than garcia

Edited December 7, 2006 by daa84

[CanOfCorn]

Unfortunately, it isn't just how he's pitched in the majors. He has 283 AAA innings and his ERA there was 5.24. This guy hasn't succeeded above the AA level...ever. I think the Phils fans know him better than we do.

 

 

And I think White Sox fans know Garcia better than they do. Sure, he steps up and pitches in big games...but the Phillies have to get to a big game first. Sure he learned how to pitch without his best stuff...but who's to say that his best stuff comes back? Or that the new pitch he learned is going to work in the National League.

 

Gavin Floyd isn't great, but he's ONLY 24. Shoot, I didn't know anything at 24 and remember the old adage about a change of scenery. It's not like Phillies fans are easy to please...just ask Santa.