I think there's limited evidence that someone is really "clutch". Jeter for his career has a .317 batting average, and .463 Slg. With runners in scoring position he's .312 and .436. Yet if we listen to the media he's the greatest clutch guy of all time. Thome is .281/.563 career, and .279/.543 career with runners in scoring position. You look at one year and it's just small sample size confusion. Dimaggio was a .325 career BA/.579 slg hitter but a .271ba/.422slg hitter in the World Series. Does that mean you'd bench him for Juan URibe who has a .286 playoff batting average with a .422 playoff slugging percent. Or maybe, you know, you'd keep Joe D in the game figuring it was just a case of small sample size. (and yes...I'd bat the long dead Dimaggio over Uribe).

 

Jeter gets his clutch reputation because he has had more opportunities to come through in the clutch than almost any other player in the history of the game. It isn't the percentage that he is successful that he gets his clutch moniker from, unfortunately. It's because the number of times he has been successful, a result of him having had so many chances, resonates in the minds of people. He's not that clutch. He's just had more chances to be remembered.

Jeter gets his clutch reputation because he has had more opportunities to come through in the clutch than almost any other player in the history of the game. It isn't the percentage that he is successful that he gets his clutch moniker from, unfortunately. It's because the number of times he has been successful, a result of him having had so many chances, resonates in the minds of people. He's not that clutch. He's just had more chances to be remembered.

Yeah I think that was mostly my point. If you are a great hitter you are a great hitter in the first inning and the fifth inning and the seventh inning. The stupid stats guys will say "in the eighth inning of games on the west coast against left handed power pitchers he's only a career .111 hitter" then you find out that means he's 1 for 9. Which is meaningless because it's two few data points in a game where 200 data points doesn't mean a lot. The casual fan will say, he's clutch because "I remember a game I went to in 2003 and he hit a homer in the 9th with two outs". But we the proud, the elite, the soxtalk gang should know better. Thome is not a good hitter, he is a GREAT hitter. Our biggest problem with him is keeping him healthy

*sigh*

 

It amazes me how smart we all are around here. We'd be 162+11=173-0 EVERY YEAR with the brain power we have here at soxtalk. Then baseball would be boring because we'd win every single game.

 

 

Yes, yes we are!!

Another "Ozzie's a big, stupid poopie-head" post. Awesome.

 

Although he has been hitting better as of late, the reason Jerry Owens is on this team because of his speed and base stealing ability. If he can't steal a base in that situation (and I believe 100% that he can) then he has no value on this team. He needs to be given the opportunity to swipe a bag there.

Another "Ozzie's a big, stupid poopie-head" post. Awesome.

Ozzie has a great baseball philosophy, in keeping with long standing White Sox traditions. With the right team he's also a great motivator. He's not a great game day manager, and I wish he had the right bench coach that could help him in clutch situations. Sorry, but that's just my opinion.

 

Ozzie has a great baseball philosophy, in keeping with long standing White Sox traditions. With the right team he's also a great motivator. He's not a great game day manager, and I wish he had the right bench coach that could help him in clutch situations. Sorry, but that's just my opinion.

 

 

He definitely manages with his emotions and could use someone a bit more level headed, and louder, at his side.

He definitely manages with his emotions and could use someone a bit more level headed, and louder, at his side.

 

Well, going from Harold to Rock/Joey was a move in that direction, no?

 

Another "Ozzie's a big, stupid poopie-head" post. Awesome.

 

Ozzie has his good points certainly, as it pertains to accountability and motivation, but I'm not crazy about his in-game strategy. His love of bunting probably needs it's own thread.

I know I'm gonna get strafed for this but again last night it happened.

 

Does Thome ever drive people in in the clutch? This is getting old.

Actually you being a Big time Rowand fanboy and avoiding all stats that show how good of a hitter Thome is in most situations is much older.

Well, going from Harold to Rock/Joey was a move in that direction, no?

 

 

I honestly think Joey talks less than Harold. And I do not trust his bug eyes..

What is is OBP with runners in scoring position compared to with no runners on? Can someone help me out with that?

.469 with RISP

.381 with bases empty

 

Thome is not a good hitter, he is a GREAT hitter. Our biggest problem with him is keeping him healthy

 

I love Peoria Jim as much as the next guy, but he's only a GREAT hitter against righties. He's far more likely to have success against righty closers than lefty set-up guys.

 

I like the idea of signing Dye, regardless of the rest of the outfield situation, because I believe he could transition nicely to DH in '09. Jim should probably be hitting only righties starting next year - his numbers against lefties have been mediocre at best for quite awhile.

 

.469 with RISP

.381 with bases empty

Those are good averages, but wouldn't they be a bit skewed because with runners on, you can have sacrifices that do not count against OBP? You do not have that with the bases empty.

Did WhiteSoxFan101 author all 80 billion volumes of "What the hell was Ozzie doing?"

 

Just curious

Actually you being a Big time Rowand fanboy and avoiding all stats that show how good of a hitter Thome is in most situations is much older.

So do these people just close their eyes and cover their ears during big hits like the 3 run homer off Durbin? It's amazing.

Ozzie has his good points certainly, as it pertains to accountability and motivation, but I'm not crazy about his in-game strategy. His love of bunting probably needs it's own thread.

 

I tend to agree with you, although my original post has more to do with the merciless Ozzie-trashing that has gone on here over the past year and a half, much of which is spearheaded by the author of this thread.

 

Those are good averages, but wouldn't they be a bit skewed because with runners on, you can have sacrifices that do not count against OBP? You do not have that with the bases empty.

Sac flies actually hurt an OBP, but don't affect a batting average. I wouldn't describe a .469 OBP in any situation as "good" either.

So do these people just close their eyes and cover their ears during big hits like the 3 run homer off Durbin? It's amazing.

I was shocked to see you only made one reply after someone, and it's usually from the same group of people, throws some crap at the wall hoping this time it would stick.

Edited August 8, 200718 yr by santo=dorf

Actually you being a Big time Rowand fanboy and avoiding all stats that show how good of a hitter Thome is in most situations is much older.

 

Really? What does this have to do with Rowand? I'll remember that next time I'm watching Thome in a clutch situation and drizzling away like he did last night and more times than I can keep track of this year.

 

But hey: that's Thome-hate, right?

 

Pfft.

Really? What does this have to do with Rowand? I'll remember that next time I'm watching Thome in a clutch situation and drizzling away like he did last night and more times than I can keep track of this year.

 

But hey: that's Thome-hate, right?

 

Pfft.

Since I can't figure out how to type stuff in the neat code format, I'll just attach a picture.

 

If you think those are bad numbers, you are either blind, stupid, or a hater. Which is LV?

 

Really? What does this have to do with Rowand? I'll remember that next time I'm watching Thome in a clutch situation and drizzling away like he did last night and more times than I can keep track of this year.

 

But hey: that's Thome-hate, right?

 

Pfft.

No but you are being extremely near sighted and relying on your own opinion and recollections instead of actually looking up what his numbers are.

I honestly think Joey talks less than Harold. And I do not trust his bug eyes..

 

But, he and Ozzie are buddies. I liked Rock Raines and when he was replaced by Ozzie for "not doing his job" I thought it was crazy. I must of missed something. What job wasn't he doing?

Adding fuel to the fire, our line-up tonight:

 

Tonight's lineup:

 

Owens CF

Fields 3B

Konerko DH

Dye RF

Erstad 1B

Gonzalez 2B

Podsednik LF

Uribe SS

Hall C

 

 

Watch us win though.

Since I can't figure out how to type stuff in the neat code format, I'll just attach a picture.

 

If you think those are bad numbers, you are either blind, stupid, or a hater. Which is LV?

 

LOL at the Mr. T pic.

 

Adding fuel to the fire, our line-up tonight:

 

Tonight's lineup:

 

Owens CF

Fields 3B

Konerko DH

Dye RF

Erstad 1B

Gonzalez 2B

Podsednik LF

Uribe SS

Hall C

Watch us win though.

No Richar, no Thome. We get Erstad, Gonzalez and Podsednik though. No real intriguing reason to watch this one.

 

I really wish Richar could get a start or 2 against a tough lefty this year instead of benching him against the likes of Petitte and Sabathia. I guess Richar and Thome can't handle a tough lefty but Erstad and Podsednik can. Some very strange logic at work with this one.