White Sox officially eliminated

[TLAK]

Cleveland's win over the Angels last night mathematically eliminated the White Sox in the AL Central. They join Tampa Bay and Baltimore as eliminated AL teams. No teams in the NL have been eliminated. The team has 20 games remaining and is 20 games under .500. Elimination number for the wild card is now 2 (Yankees).

 

The obits have been written for the 2007 team for some time. In the end, they fell short in every phase of the game; pitching, hitting, defense, baserunning and throwing. They couldn't even bunt. They truly lost as a team. They need some new players and some old ones to play better. That said, a team with a quality starting rotation, a proven 3-4-5 batting order and a star closer can be turned around in a hurry.

 

Worst to first!

 

[The Critic]

....the fuse...is......lit.......?

[RME JICO]

How about adding bad managing, coaching, personnel mangement decisions, and scouting to that list.

 

All other teams need to do is throw the ball low and away, or start a LHP.

Edited September 9, 2007 by RME JICO

[WilliamTell]

oh mannnnnnnnnn we can't win the division now, but there's always the wild card, haha.

[elrockinMT]

Next year will be different that's what is so great about baseball

[kwolf68]

 

I think most of us knew this day was coming 2 months ago...it was just a matter when.

[witesoxfan]

....the fuse...is......lit.......?

 

I believe you said it is wet

[29andPoplar]

Interesting comment by Reinsdorf in this article.

 

http://whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?y...sp&c_id=cws

[EvilJester99]

By the sounds of that article they would be happy to have Uribe back.....

[Flash Tizzle]

Next year will be different that's what is so great about baseball

How if it wont? You can't guarantee otherwise, considering nearly the entire roster will be back.

[winninguglyin83]

most of us knew this day was coming 5 1/2 months ago after a month of horrible and lackluster play in spring training.

 

need to punt about half the guys off the 25-man roster.

[29andPoplar]

considering nearly the entire roster will be back.

 

No it won't.

[Yossarian]

Interesting comment by Reinsdorf in this article.

 

http://whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?y...sp&c_id=cws

Depressing. Reinsdorf is as stubborn as always.

 

[29andPoplar]

Depressing. Reinsdorf is as stubborn as always.

 

That is, of course, one way to look at it.

 

The other is, maybe he might know a little bit more about what's going on than any of us.

[Yossarian]

That is, of course, one way to look at it.

 

The other is, maybe he might know a little bit more about what's going on than any of us.

I know his bank account is a lot fatter than mine. Nevertheless, I never bow down to the so called experts, just because they're so called experts. Successful people with big fat bank accounts make big fat mistakes all the time. So do politicians, military leaders, etc. etc.

 

[Texsox]

Depressing. Reinsdorf is as stubborn as always.

 

No, not always. Link

[whitesoxfan101]

The other is, maybe he might know a little bit more about what's going on than any of us.

Come on 29th, your smarter than to think that. This IS the 10th anniversary of the White Flag after all, plus in that article he says "nobody with a brain has criticized the job Greg Walker has done". Sounds dumb and stubborn as ever to me.

[The Critic]

I believe you said it is wet

They just put the fuse away for the winter.

[NorthSideSox72]

nearly the entire roster will be back.

I'd wager against that.

 

[kapkomet]

I'd wager against that.

So would I, because they know damn well that they will have an empty ballpark next year with this same roster. They have to get new guys if for no other reason other then to try and maintain interest in putting asses in the seats. That's where ultimately it comes down, and they know that the fans did not connect with this team.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

I'd wager against that.

Let's say for argument sakes that 20/25 of those players on the active roster (before September 1st) return. I'd consider that a significant amount.

 

Now, let's put it together -- perhaps we'll have a new SS and CF, UTL MIF, a bullpen arm, and maybe one additional SP if Garland or Contreras is traded. This is fairly accurate, wouldn't you say?

 

I don't believe such changes would be enough to compete for a playoff birth. It's going to be quite funny to listen to management try and convince Sox fans they're going to contend next season. That's why I believe Williams is only digging himself further into the ground. He would be better off rebuilding with the few players who hold value rather than giving everyone the impression this team will compete, then when they don't, having to look ridiculous. Atleast we'd expect hardships with a rebuilding effort. What will the excuse be in 2008 if it's similar to this season? Reading articles which suggest David Eckstein is our number 1 offseason target is ridiculous. So is overpaying for Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand. We're in a real bind. Only way we're getting talent is trading SP prospects, which is not the way to go with an organization void of many high ceiling players.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[NorthSideSox72]

Let's say for argument sakes that 20/25 of those players on the active roster (before September 1st) return. I'd consider that a significant amount.

 

Now, let's put it together -- perhaps we'll have a new SS and CF, UTL MIF, a bullpen arm, and maybe one additional SP if Garland or Contreras is traded. This is fairly accurate, wouldn't you say?

 

I don't believe such changes would be enough to compete for a playoff birth. It's going to be quite funny to listen to management try and convince Sox fans they're going to contend next season. That's why I believe Williams is only digging himself further into the ground. He would be better off rebuilding with the few players who hold value rather than giving everyone the impression this team will compete, then when they don't, having to look ridiculous. Atleast we'd expect hardships with a rebuilding effort. What will the excuse be in 2008 if it's similar to this season? Reading articles which suggest David Eckstein is our number 1 offseason target is ridiculous. So is overpaying for Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand. We're in a real bind. Only way we're getting talent is trading SP prospects, which is not the way to go with an organization void of many high ceiling players.

1. 20 players won't be back. From the current 25, I can name 7 players highly unlikely to return: Cintron, Uribe, Bukvich, Podsednik, MMac/Thornton (one of the two), Garland, Gonzalez. Then you can pretty much figure that one or two others will go in trades, that aren't what people thought - could be Contreras, Hall, heck anyone else really is possible. That is 9+ guys right there.

 

2. You are forgetting that they already moved numerous players from the roster that weren't contributing when the team fell out of contention - Gooch, various relievers, etc. That's another few.

 

3. Making changes at the biggest holes - SS, CF, maybe RP... those are the places that changes have the biggest value. If for example they made major upgrades to SS, CF and one RP spot... those 3 changes alone can make a huge difference. Sometimes, just a couple or three guys can be a big change.

 

4. Your constant diatribe about the lousy farm system is really only accurate for position players. This organization has quite a bit of pitching talent depth. It would be hard to believe that KW and Co wouldn't leverage that this offseason to start getting more position player prospects. Add that to the fact that a number of our draftees from this year are already doing well at GF or elsewhere in the system (Gallagher, Miranda, etc.), plus the very high draft pick they are likely to get in 2008, and now it looks like they are actually improving things. I know that may be hard for you to believe, but the signs are there.

 

5. Are you seriously going to convert a sports writer's comments about Eckstein being "target #1" into fact? Despite the fact that there are all sorts of indications that they are aiming much higher than that?

 

6. None of this even touches on the fact that they organization KNOWS that attendance will take a hit in 2008 - its just a question of how much of one. And they aren't going to sit idly by and watch that revenue slink away.

 

For these and other reasons it seems obvious to me the organization is going to make a lot of significant changes this offseason. Now, as to whether or not those changes result in a contender in 2008, I can't even guess at that until the dust settles.

 

[29andPoplar]

Come on 29th, your smarter than to think that. This IS the 10th anniversary of the White Flag after all, plus in that article he says "nobody with a brain has criticized the job Greg Walker has done". Sounds dumb and stubborn as ever to me.

 

101,

 

Yes I would say he (Reinsdorf) does and says things some fans disagree with.

 

The older I get and the more I watch the game and the more I understand all the peripheral things though, the more I realize he is usually spot on.

[29andPoplar]

I know his bank account is a lot fatter than mine. Nevertheless, I never bow down to the so called experts, just because they're so called experts. Successful people with big fat bank accounts make big fat mistakes all the time. So do politicians, military leaders, etc. etc.

 

The bank account has nothing to do with it. I'm talking knowing about baseball here, and knowing what goes on in the clubhouse. He (Reinsdorf) definitely has a leg up on anyone here in both departments.

[29andPoplar]

That's why I believe Williams is only digging himself further into the ground. He would be better off rebuilding with the few players who hold value rather than giving everyone the impression this team will compete, then when they don't, having to look ridiculous. Atleast we'd expect hardships with a rebuilding effort. What will the excuse be in 2008 if it's similar to this season? Reading articles which suggest David Eckstein is our number 1 offseason target is ridiculous. So is overpaying for Torii Hunter or Aaron Rowand. We're in a real bind. Only way we're getting talent is trading SP prospects, which is not the way to go with an organization void of many high ceiling players.

 

No matter how many times you post that they should, they are not going to rebuild in 2008. Wouldn't it be better to wait it out and see what they do and what they can accomplish. Baseball works funny sometimes. Look at Detroit, not to pick on them specifically but many people were saying they will have a dynasty due to their pitching. Bonderman is on his way to see an elbow doctor today.

 

Don't believe all the articles is all I can say.