Lance Broadway...

[BearSox]

I didn't know he threw a splitter...

 

In his two brief appearences, I have been pleasently surpised. He doesn't have over-powering stuff, but a lot of movement and pretty good command which will only hopefully get better. A couple of those splitters he threw were plain filthy.

 

I think he is making a name for himself as a major competetor to replace one of Garland/Contreras, and if not then start the year in the bullpen.

[kevo880]

I didn't know he threw a splitter...

 

In his two brief appearences, I have been pleasently surpised. He doesn't have over-powering stuff, but a lot of movement and pretty good command which will only hopefully get better. A couple of those splitters he threw were plain filthy.

 

I think he is making a name for himself as a major competetor to replace one of Garland/Contreras, and if not then start the year in the bullpen.

 

I really hope the WhiteSox organization stops putting our young starters in the bullpen. I realize it gives them major league experience, but pitching out of the bullpen is a different mentality that most of the starters have never experienced which also leads to early struggles. These young hurlers have a difficult enough task as it is moving from the minors to the "show", I hate that management makes it even more difficult on them by putting them in situations they've never been in before.

[BearSox]

I really hope the WhiteSox organization stops putting our young starters in the bullpen. I realize it gives them major league experience, but pitching out of the bullpen is a different mentality that most of the starters have never experienced which also leads to early struggles. These young hurlers have a difficult enough task as it is moving from the minors to the "show", I hate that management makes it even more difficult on them by putting them in situations they've never been in before.

It worked out for Buehrle and Liriano and plenty of other pitchers in the big leagues.

[kevo880]

It worked out for Buehrle and Liriano and plenty of other pitchers in the big leagues.

 

I'm not saying it hasn't. I know Buerhle and Garland were brought up this way but recently it seems to be messing with our pitchers more than helping them. I'm thinking of guys like Floyd, Masset, Sisco, McCarthy, not so much Haeger. It just seems like Danks is the only young starter the Sox have thrown right into the rotation in a while.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Broadway was second in AAA in walks allowed this year, and tied for 9th in all the minors. That's not good.

 

Last season, Charlie Haeger posted similarly poor walk totals in AAA, came up to have an improbably good September with the White Sox and carried that through to a... another year in AAA.

 

4 innings of work with the White Sox isn't enough to convince me that he's anything other than his performance at AAA indicated.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I really hope the WhiteSox organization stops putting our young starters in the bullpen. I realize it gives them major league experience, but pitching out of the bullpen is a different mentality that most of the starters have never experienced which also leads to early struggles. These young hurlers have a difficult enough task as it is moving from the minors to the "show", I hate that management makes it even more difficult on them by putting them in situations they've never been in before.

Agreed 100%. For too long the White Sox have suckled on the tit of Earl Weaver, waiting for the 3-run HR and working young pitchers in through the bullpen.

 

From now on, it's baptism by fire, low OBP grinders, and Andy Gonzalez at 3B!

[kevo880]

Agreed 100%. For too long the White Sox have suckled on the tit of Earl Weaver, waiting for the 3-run HR and working young pitchers in through the bullpen.

 

From now on, it's baptism by fire, low OBP grinders, and Andy Gonzalez at 3B!

 

I could care a less if Andy Gonzalez is even a part of the organization next year.

[hitlesswonder]

Agreed 100%. For too long the White Sox have suckled on the tit of Earl Weaver, waiting for the 3-run HR and working young pitchers in through the bullpen.

 

From now on, it's baptism by fire, low OBP grinders, and Andy Gonzalez at 3B!

Think how good Johan Santana would be now if he hadn't pitched out of the pen.

[striker]

You know how fans in the outfield bleachers hold up signs that say "So and So, hit it here"? Someone sitting on the first base side seats should make a sign that says "Cintron or Gonzalez, throw it here".

Edited September 12, 2007 by striker62704

[hitlesswonder]

Broadway was second in AAA in walks allowed this year, and tied for 9th in all the minors. That's not good.

 

Last season, Charlie Haeger posted similarly poor walk totals in AAA, came up to have an improbably good September with the White Sox and carried that through to a... another year in AAA.

 

4 innings of work with the White Sox isn't enough to convince me that he's anything other than his performance at AAA indicated.

I'm going on about 15 pessimistic posts in a row. I can't muster up too much optimism, but I'll try. Broadway spent the year working on throwing a 2-seam fastball, didn't he? So maybe there's some hope he could drop that walk total if he actually does learn how to throw it. I agree that nothing anyone saw tonight should make them think Broadway is anywhere close to being effective in the bigs, 86 MPH fastball and all. But if he could somehow learn the 2-seamer maybe he could be a semi-effective junk-balling reliever or something. That would be a triumph for the minor league system.

[striker]

I'm going on about 15 pessimistic posts in a row. I can't muster up too much optimism, but I'll try. Broadway spent the year working on throwing a 2-seam fastball, didn't he? So maybe there's some hope he could drop that walk total if he actually does learn how to throw it. I agree that nothing anyone saw tonight should make them think Broadway is anywhere close to being effective in the bigs, 86 MPH fastball and all. But if he could somehow learn the 2-seamer maybe he could be a semi-effective junk-balling reliever or something. That would be a triumph for the minor league system.

 

How about the next Greg Maddux?

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'm going on about 15 pessimistic posts in a row. I can't muster up too much optimism, but I'll try. Broadway spent the year working on throwing a 2-seam fastball, didn't he? So maybe there's some hope he could drop that walk total if he actually does learn how to throw it. I agree that nothing anyone saw tonight should make them think Broadway is anywhere close to being effective in the bigs, 86 MPH fastball and all. But if he could somehow learn the 2-seamer maybe he could be a semi-effective junk-balling reliever or something. That would be a triumph for the minor league system.

His peripherals were much better in the second half of the season, but he had an ERA well over six since July... Actually, that's exactly how Haeger's season went last year too; Dominant first half, bad second half, surprising September. (though I'd hardly call Broadway dominating in the first half)

 

I guess I was a little too swayed by the second-half ERA. Though, I couldn't explain how he was keeping his ERA as low as it was on July 1.

 

We'll see. Things could have clicked, and didn't really show up in results outside of an improved K/9 and K/BB ratio.

[Jeremy]

Broadway was second in AAA in walks allowed this year, and tied for 9th in all the minors. That's not good.

 

Last season, Charlie Haeger posted similarly poor walk totals in AAA, came up to have an improbably good September with the White Sox and carried that through to a... another year in AAA.

 

4 innings of work with the White Sox isn't enough to convince me that he's anything other than his performance at AAA indicated.

 

Peripherals (and rate of progression) are a completely different game for knuckleball pitchers. Haeger's walk rate actually improved this season; he struggled not because his walk rate finally caught up to him but because he gave up way more home runs than he ever had before. Charlie is still a baby for a knuckleballer so he still has a very bright future ahead of him. Broadway is running out of time to establish himself as someone who has a future in the majors as more than a long reliever/mop up man.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Peripherals (and rate of progression) are a completely different game for knuckleball pitchers. Haeger's walk rate actually improved this season; he struggled not because his walk rate finally caught up to him but because he gave up way more home runs than he ever had before. Charlie is still a baby for a knuckleballer so he still has a very bright future ahead of him. Broadway is running out of time to establish himself as someone who has a future in the majors as more than a long reliever/mop up man.

That's funny, because Broadway has 3 options remaining while I believe Haeger only has one. Haeger's the one with limited time to establish himself, at least with the Sox anyways.

[Jeremy]

His peripherals were much better in the second half of the season, but he had an ERA well over six since July... Actually, that's exactly how Haeger's season went last year too; Dominant first half, bad second half, surprising September. (though I'd hardly call Broadway dominating in the first half)

 

I don't have any recollection of Charlie's second half last season but he had a 3 ERA on the season, how bad could it have been?

[Jeremy]

That's funny, because Broadway has 3 options remaining while I believe Haeger only has one. Haeger's the one with limited time to establish himself, at least with the Sox anyways.

 

That may be the unfortunate reality but yeah, I meant as a player. I think Charlie will be a pretty good pitcher in the big leagues but I'm not entirely convinced that it will be with the White Sox which is a shame because I'm tired of following players from our system on other teams.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I don't have any recollection of Charlie's second half last season but he had a 3 ERA on the season, how bad could it have been?

He had like a 1.8 at the break, and about a 5 after it... Overall, his RA was about a run more than his ERA thanks to all the PB, WP and such that happens with knuckler.

[hitlesswonder]

That's funny, because Broadway has 3 options remaining while I believe Haeger only has one. Haeger's the one with limited time to establish himself, at least with the Sox anyways.

Clearly, Haeger will move to Red Sox organization. It's destiny, not just because of Wakefield but because of the decided tilt of the analytical baseball community (Haeger's main champions) towards Massachusetts. Anyway, if that does happen, it will be hard for me to blame the White Sox. You can't keep Haeger in the majors based solely on the faith that one day he will be effective there. It's a shame he didn't get more time this season instead of, say, Bukvich.

 

As for Broadway's age, brought up by Jeremy, I'm not really sure I care about a pitcher's age that much. Certainly not as much as I would with a position prospect. It's clear, given Broadway's age and mediocre AAA performance that he's not headed to the HOF. But a lot of major league pitchers had poor starts and became effective in the bigs later. Halladay and Carpenter are obvious ones. Rich Hill made the bigs at a relatively advanced age. Broadway has yet to fail repeatedly in AAA so I won't write him off completely yet. I'm not his biggest fan, but at least the Sox and he are working on something specific to make him a better pitcher. Maybe it will work for him.

[Texsox]

Coming up through the pen is almost a given. I'm not too worried about that option. You have to play your best available.

[Jeremy]

Clearly, Haeger will move to Red Sox organization. It's destiny, not just because of Wakefield but because of the decided tilt of the analytical baseball community (Haeger's main champions) towards Massachusetts. Anyway, if that does happen, it will be hard for me to blame the White Sox. You can't keep Haeger in the majors based solely on the faith that one day he will be effective there. It's a shame he didn't get more time this season instead of, say, Bukvich.

 

If I were calling the shots I would 1) be patient and make sure Charlie's last option is used wisely (though I don't know how much longer it is until he becomes a minor league free agent) and 2) give him a long (80+ IP) tryout before letting him go. One of my criticisms of the organization is that they sometimes call up players and then have a knee jerk reaction and send them back down after a week or two if they struggle. That's not a good way to evaluate talent because you're dealing with a very small sample size and adjusting to the big leagues can be very difficult. I'm not as high on Floyd as some in the organization apparently are but I applaud the number of chances he's been given this year and the team has been rewarded some for their patience. If Charlie's fate in this organization is determined largely by his 29.2 major league innings, it will be a travesty.

 

As for Broadway's age, brought up by Jeremy, I'm not really sure I care about a pitcher's age that much. Certainly not as much as I would with a position prospect. It's clear, given Broadway's age and mediocre AAA performance that he's not headed to the HOF. But a lot of major league pitchers had poor starts and became effective in the bigs later. Halladay and Carpenter are obvious ones. Rich Hill made the bigs at a relatively advanced age. Broadway has yet to fail repeatedly in AAA so I won't write him off completely yet. I'm not his biggest fan, but at least the Sox and he are working on something specific to make him a better pitcher. Maybe it will work for him.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd compare Carpenter and Halladay since they reached the big leagues early as top prospects and then struggled for some time. Hill is also a little bit different since he put up so pretty dominant levels at every stop but high A ball. My concern about Broadway is much more about his performance than his age. His AA numbers are a lot better than I remembered so maybe he can turn things around with a second run through AAA but without a big improvement, he'll be a 25 year old who can't figure out AAA ball and that's rough.

 

 

[Steve9347]

Broadway doesn't have the mentality nor the stuff to be a contributing major league starter. If he can't challenge hitters in AAA (9th most BB in the minors) then he sure as s*** can't challenge them in the majors.

[daa84]

Broadway doesn't have the mentality nor the stuff to be a contributing major league starter. If he can't challenge hitters in AAA (9th most BB in the minors) then he sure as s*** can't challenge them in the majors.

i certainly can't speak to the mentality of lance broadway because frankly i dont know him and i havent seen him consistently pitch......personally i am far less concerned about the walks than his lack of Ks......this year was a clear outlier in walks for broadway....his 4.53 BB/9IP was much higher than his previous career high of 3.27 and 2.33 in 2006 in AA....i also believe a rather reasonable explanation for the walks could be the fact taht he was developing a 2 seamer which he basically didnt throw until this year, and a changeup....and he was learning to harness them..both of which, i was certainly impressed last night with given what i had heard about his stuff

[southsider2k5]

Broadway strikes me as a guy that Don Cooper can work with. Without having seen him pitch in the minors, he strikes me as a guy who has more movement than he knows how to control at his age. I don't think it is because he doesn't want to challege hitters, I just don't think he has harnessed his stuff yet. Cooper seems to specialize in controling the amount of variables in a pitchers delivery to give them some movement, but still allow them a higher level of control over it.

 

Will he succeed, I don't know. It seems like he could be a guy who could succeed here.

[Jeremy]

He had like a 1.8 at the break, and about a 5 after it... Overall, his RA was about a run more than his ERA thanks to all the PB, WP and such that happens with knuckler.

 

Not to split hairs, but halves of 1.8 and 5 would be an ERA around 3.4 not 3.07 on the season if the pitcher threw a similar number of innings pitched in each half. Since there are normally more games before the break than after and pitchers generally throw fewer innings if they're struggling, I'm thinking it had to be more like 4.5 or 4 in the second half if it was under 2 in the first half.

[wbicker2424]

I'm going on about 15 pessimistic posts in a row. I can't muster up too much optimism, but I'll try. Broadway spent the year working on throwing a 2-seam fastball, didn't he? So maybe there's some hope he could drop that walk total if he actually does learn how to throw it. I agree that nothing anyone saw tonight should make them think Broadway is anywhere close to being effective in the bigs, 86 MPH fastball and all. But if he could somehow learn the 2-seamer maybe he could be a semi-effective junk-balling reliever or something. That would be a triumph for the minor league system.

 

I saw him pitch in person earlier this summer. He was consistently throwing his fastball at 90-91, not 86.