Brian Anderson's strong words about Winter Ball...

[29andPoplar]

Well he got screwed by this organization and now he's acting very unprofessional. I really couldn't care less at this point, he was never going to play for this team again, I guess after being lied to by the organization he just finally lost it.

 

The organization neither screwed him or lied to him. He'd been told multiple times the work he needed to put in to get better, he didn't. This is a guy who watches TV in the clubhouse instead of studying film. The White Sox are not in the business of wanting their players to fail. It's no one's fault but his own that he's acting unprofessionally.

[supernuke]

The organization neither screwed him or lied to him. He'd been told multiple times the work he needed to put in to get better, he didn't. This is a guy who watches TV in the clubhouse instead of studying film. The White Sox are not in the business of wanting their players to fail. It's no one's fault but his own that he's acting unprofessionally.

 

 

Well maybe it's not his fault. Maybe Ozzie and KW should have scheduled weekly meetings with him to keep him informed of their plans for him. I'm sure that would have helped him. Damn KW and Ozzie, not making enough time for this budding superstar.

[Rowand44]

The organization neither screwed him or lied to him. He'd been told multiple times the work he needed to put in to get better, he didn't. This is a guy who watches TV in the clubhouse instead of studying film. The White Sox are not in the business of wanting their players to fail. It's no one's fault but his own that he's acting unprofessionally.

I'm tired of arguing about Brian Anderson since it doesn't even matter anymore, I'll just say that i disagree.

[29andPoplar]

I'm tired of arguing about Brian Anderson since it doesn't even matter anymore, I'll just say that i disagree.

 

On one level I agree, it doesn't matter. On another level it does, and that's the notion the White Sox screw their players and purposely derail their careers. Some of that type of stuff has been said in this thread and it's nonsense. Some young players do everything they can to get better and use every tool available to help them improve. Some don't, and Anderson is in that group.

 

I like guys on the team who will fight through adversity, work hard, and do their best to prepare.

 

[Dick Allen]

On one level I agree, it doesn't matter. On another level it does, and that's the notion the White Sox screw their players and purposely derail their careers. Some of that type of stuff has been said in this thread and it's nonsense. Some young players do everything they can to get better and use every tool available to help them improve. Some don't, and Anderson is in that group.

 

I like guys on the team who will fight through adversity, work hard, and do their best to prepare.

 

The White Sox did screw Anderson. I don't think they screw players development on purpose. They do like to make players they get rid of look not as good as they are perceived. They threw him in CF on a defending championship team, when apparently he wasn't ready to handle it, and really had no plan B. Even when it appeared apparent he was in a little over his head, they did nothing. Ozzie was quoted in spring training 2006 that he didn't care what Anderson hit, what he worried about was Anderson's defense. Anderson performed fine defensively and didn't hit. Then all of a sudden, his hitting did matter. Anderson hit something like .250 the second half of the season, and was basically given no shot in 2007. Yet players that got on base about as often as him in Owens, Fields and Richar supposedly figure prominently in future plans. If the White Sox can't get him to watch film and work on his game instead of watching TV in the clubhouse, what does that say about the manager? What does it say about the team leaders? Anderson seems to be on the way out in typical fashion. I love the White Sox, but its amazing to me the high percentage of players that leave with bad feelings. For a while almost every player that left was pissed off at the organization, including the current manager. Then they finally got rid of a decent player who said nothing, Carlos Lee. The Sox were flabbergasted. They had to point out what a horrible LF he was although they would tell him he was good to make him happy, and had to let everyone know he slides into second like a pussy.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Dick Allen

[29andPoplar]

The White Sox did screw Anderson. They threw him in CF on a defending championship team, when apparently he wasn't ready to handle it, and really had no plan B. Even when it appeared apparent he was in a little over his head, they did nothing. Ozzie was quoted in spring training 2006 that he didn't care what Anderson hit, what he worried about was Anderson's defense. Anderson performed fine defensively and didn't hit. Then all of a sudden, his hitting did matter. Anderson hit something like .250 the second half of the season, and was basically given no shot in 2007. Yet players that got on base about as often as him in Owens, Fields and Richar supposedly figure prominently in future plans. If the White Sox can't get him to watch film and work on his game instead of watching TV in the clubhouse, what does that say about the manager? What does it say about the team leaders? Anderson seems to be on the way out in typical fashion. I love the White Sox, but its amazing to me the high percentage of players that leave with bad feelings. For a while almost every player that left was pissed off at the organization, including the current manager. Then they finally got rid of a decent player who said nothing, Carlos Lee. The Sox were flabbergasted. They had to point out what a horrible LF he was although they would tell him he was good to make him happy, and had to let everyone know he slides into second like a pussy.

 

No actually they didn't screw Anderson, unless you define a screwing as giving a young player an opportunity. He was more than a little over his head, and in large part it was due to Brian himself. All those things I have posted and others have posted. To succeed in the big leagues, you work harder than the other guy, you prepare harder than the other guy, you watch film so you know what guys tend to throw once you've swung at 2 bad pitches and are 0-2.

 

Further it is absolutely untrue he did not get any shot in 2007. The same bad habits and the same "I'm talented and I'll just let my talent rise to the top" mentality bit him in the ass.

 

Anderson is not a kid. Players have to take responsibility. Blaming the manager for Brian Anderson watching TV is mind boggling. The guy admitted to throwing a pity party in 2006 when things weren't working out, throwing a pity party in 2007 when things weren't working out, and now whining to the press.

 

When exactly does this board lay the blame at the players feet when things don't work out? The team leaders are the guys who try to help Anderson, even Erstad was trying to take him under his wing in Tucson, show him how to be a pro, etc. But Brian does things Brian's way and if a TV show is more important than watching film, well that's Brian's way.

 

I bet if you look at all the other 29 teams, you will see players unhappy when they leave. This is not unique to the White Sox. It happens. Conversely, there seems to be quite a number of players, marquee and otherwise, who seem to like it here and others who want to come back. Almost all the coaches are former White Sox players who seem to like it here, many players are unhappy when they're traded, so stuff like that goes both ways.

 

The reason why players like Owens, Fields, Richar are (probably) in Sox plans and Brian Anderson (probably) isn't is in large part due to how they approach the game, how they prepare, all the things discussed here at length in this thread. It boils down to those guys wanting to get better and getting after it vs. pouting.

 

If anyone got screwed, it was the fans and the good players on the team who deserve a better CF and teammate than Brian.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

No actually they didn't screw Anderson, unless you define a screwing as giving a young player an opportunity. He was more than a little over his head, and in large part it was due to Brian himself. All those things I have posted and others have posted. To succeed in the big leagues, you work harder than the other guy, you prepare harder than the other guy, you watch film so you know what guys tend to throw once you've swung at 2 bad pitches and are 0-2.

 

Further it is absolutely untrue he did not get any shot in 2007. The same bad habits and the same "I'm talented and I'll just let my talent rise to the top" mentality bit him in the ass.

 

Anderson is not a kid. Players have to take responsibility. Blaming the manager for Brian Anderson watching TV is mind boggling. The guy admitted to throwing a pity party in 2006 when things weren't working out, throwing a pity party in 2007 when things weren't working out, and now whining to the press.

 

When exactly does this board lay the blame at the players feet when things don't work out? The team leaders are the guys who try to help Anderson, even Erstad was trying to take him under his wing in Tucson, show him how to be a pro, etc. But Brian does things Brian's way and if a TV show is more important than watching film, well that's Brian's way.

 

I bet if you look at all the other 29 teams, you will see players unhappy when they leave. This is not unique to the White Sox. It happens. Conversely, there seems to be quite a number of players, marquee and otherwise, who seem to like it here and others who want to come back. Almost all the coaches are former White Sox players who seem to like it here, many players are unhappy when they're traded, so stuff like that goes both ways.

 

The reason why players like Owens, Fields, Richar are (probably) in Sox plans and Brian Anderson (probably) isn't is in large part due to how they approach the game, how they prepare, all the things discussed here at length in this thread. It boils down to those guys wanting to get better and getting after it vs. pouting.

 

If anyone got screwed, it was the fans and the good players on the team who deserve a better CF and teammate than Brian.

BS he got a fair shot in 2007. His spring was just as good as Erstad's. Listening to Hawk talk about Erstad, you think they put Darin in the Hall of Fame already. They actually were saying he gets little bloop hits on purpose, and how unlucky the Sox were when other teams got those same kind of hits. And if they are b****ing and moaning Anderson is watching TV, well, they have made a pretty big investment in him, why don't they go turn the TV off, or better yet, since watching it is so bad, what is it doing in the clubhouse during spring training to begin with? And if his attitude was as bad as you claim, wasn't having him come to Chicago to begin the 2007 season a horrible idea? Maybe send him to Birmingham for an attitude adjustment if its so bad? Don't have him around for parts of 2 seasons and a full one and then b**** about his attitude. Do something about it when it first becomes a problem. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I doubt his attitude is any worse than a lot of White Sox.

[29andPoplar]

BS he got a fair shot in 2007. His spring was just as good as Erstad's. Listening to Hawk talk about Erstad, you think they put Darin in the Hall of Fame already. They actually were saying he gets little bloop hits on purpose, and how unlucky the Sox were when other teams got those same kind of hits. And if they are b****ing and moaning Anderson is watching TV, well, they have made a pretty big investment in him, why don't they go turn the TV off, or better yet, since watching it is so bad, what is it doing in the clubhouse during spring training to begin with? And if his attitude was as bad as you claim, wasn't having him come to Chicago to begin the 2007 season a horrible idea? Maybe send him to Birmingham for an attitude adjustment if its so bad? Don't have him around for parts of 2 seasons and a full one and then b**** about his attitude. Do something about it when it first becomes a problem. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I doubt his attitude is any worse than a lot of White Sox.

 

BS he didn't get a fair shot. He got the shot he earned, a competition with a veteran because when he got a golden opportunity in 2006 it didn't work out and the goal was to win in 2007 vs. coddle Brian Anderson.

 

Actually Brian had slightly better spring stats than Erstad, not that spring stats are the be-all end-all. They were close. So given that, do you think there may have been other reasons why Anderson didn't get the job? If so, you'd be right. Maybe because one guy was a pro who was setting a good example and trying to help other players, while the other wasn't, and was feeling sorry for himself.

 

Secondly, the TV incident wasn't during spring training. It was during a big league series, in Chicago, vs. the Cleveland Indians. There are TV's in the clubhouse. He had the responsibility to be watching film, he was watching TV instead. A manager isn't a baby sitter, the player has to take responsibility.

 

Actually they have talked and talked and talked to Brian about making improvements in all facets of his game, especially the preparation part because he is not mature enough to handle failure. Witness the pity parties. Successful big league players don't throw pity parties. He did it in 2006, they said don't do that. He did it in spring training when he had a tough 10 day stretch, they said don't do that. He did it again sitting on the bench, they said don't do that. Then he did it upon returning to Charlotte where he started off horribly before hurting his wrist yet again. Do you see a pattern here? Sox brass does.

 

His attitude and approach is a lot worse than most White Sox players. Yet he continues to want to do things his way, at his pace. They thought by keeping him as a reserve, he could help the team win and step in if necessary. He was too busy feeling sorry for himself to improve and earn another opportunity, so they sent him down. So what does he do? Pity party #3 in Charlotte.

 

Bottom line they have been working with this guy since he came into the organization on all sorts of things. Frankly the biggest mistake might have been drafting him. If a guy is obviously high maintenance and wants to do his own thing, maybe it is a good idea to shy away from said player and not bring them into the organization.

 

If you don't believe any of this and want to think there's a conspiracy theory to hold Brian Anderson down, that is ok by me. However, I wouldn't be spending my time typing this stuff if I weren't aware of a lot of this from talking to people who have always been very forthright.

[The Ginger Kid]

The White Sox did screw Anderson. They threw him in CF on a defending championship team, when apparently he wasn't ready to handle it

 

BS he got a fair shot in 2007. His spring was just as good as Erstad's.

 

I'm confused. How does one bad season in the bigs earn you the inside edge over a gold-glove veteran, albeit one on the downside of his career?

 

They gave him a mighty nice signing bonus, flew him to Dodger stadium to take BP with the team after he signed, put him in the dugout during a great post-season run and traded away probably the most popular player on the team to make room for him, then handed him the job in '06 with no competition and he flopped. How does this translate into screwing a guy? Some seem to think the sox are running a daycare center. And now he's whining? They drafted a dud. Move on.

[rockren]

Brian Anderson is on his way to Milwaukee with Egbert for Billy Hall (our new starting SS).

[max power]

On one level I agree, it doesn't matter. On another level it does, and that's the notion the White Sox screw their players and purposely derail their careers. Some of that type of stuff has been said in this thread and it's nonsense. Some young players do everything they can to get better and use every tool available to help them improve. Some don't, and Anderson is in that group.

 

I like guys on the team who will fight through adversity, work hard, and do their best to prepare.

I don't think it was purposefully. I think it was because ozzie got a man crush. I think it was very shortsighted too, which you inevitably get when you want to win now. That borders on sounding stupid, but I think its accurate, unfortunately.

[SkokieSox]

Well maybe it's not his fault. Maybe Ozzie and KW should have scheduled weekly meetings with him to keep him informed of their plans for him. I'm sure that would have helped him. Damn KW and Ozzie, not making enough time for this budding superstar.

 

At what age does a man need to be responsible for his own actions? If someone struggles and is too proud to ask for help, how receptive is he going to be when you offer it? The Sox seemed prepared to offer him the help anyhow, and he is b****ing about winter ball. I mean, we have super stars playing winter ball, and this guy thinks he's beyond it.

[jackie hayes]

At what age does a man need to be responsible for his own actions? If someone struggles and is too proud to ask for help, how receptive is he going to be when you offer it? The Sox seemed prepared to offer him the help anyhow, and he is b****ing about winter ball. I mean, we have super stars playing winter ball, and this guy thinks he's beyond it.

He said his wrist isn't 100% yet. If he goes to winter ball and bombs, injury or no, he'll have a more difficult time getting a look from another team. Since he obviously isn't in the plans for the Sox, that has to be his primary goal. So why would he go before he's healthy?

 

Btw, you really need to learn how to recognize sarcasm.

[Dick Allen]

At what age does a man need to be responsible for his own actions? If someone struggles and is too proud to ask for help, how receptive is he going to be when you offer it? The Sox seemed prepared to offer him the help anyhow, and he is b****ing about winter ball. I mean, we have super stars playing winter ball, and this guy thinks he's beyond it.

Well then they should be consistent with all the players. Their best players should also be personally responsible for their shortcomings. Anderson is still not 100% physically, but why is everything his fault when in 2006 when Buerhle and Freddy Garcia were both pretty out of shape it wasn't their fault? Ozzie blamed Allen Thomas. Of course, it wasn't Thomas' fault that Uribe was fat, but I digress. Blame Anderson for a bad 2006, but I blame the White Sox for setting him up to fail, with no reasonable back up plan. Telling him that they don't care what he hits, then crying that he's not hitting.They had no back up plan. As for all the talk that he was a bad teammate, I seem to recall that when AJ got sucker punched, the 2 players that had his back the most were Pods who was right on the play, but I still give him credit, and Brian Anderson. We here all the "inside info" about Anderson watching TV not working on improving, he's a bad teammate etc. If that is 100% accurate, what is he still doing in the organization?

Edited November 3, 2007 by Dick Allen

[29andPoplar]

Well then they should be consistent with all the players. Their best players should also be personally responsible for their shortcomings. Anderson is still not 100% physically, but why is everything his fault when in 2006 when Buerhle and Freddy Garcia were both pretty out of shape it wasn't their fault? Ozzie blamed Allen Thomas. Of course, it wasn't Thomas' fault that Uribe was fat, but I digress. Blame Anderson for a bad 2006, but I blame the White Sox for setting him up to fail, with no reasonable back up plan. Telling him that they don't care what he hits, then crying that he's not hitting.They had no back up plan. As for all the talk that he was a bad teammate, I seem to recall that when AJ got sucker punched, the 2 players that had his back the most were Pods who was right on the play, but I still give him credit, and Brian Anderson. We here all the "inside info" about Anderson watching TV not working on improving, he's a bad teammate etc. If that is 100% accurate, what is he still doing in the organization?

 

He's still here because they don't want to give him away, and "not much" is probably what the Sox could get for him right now. It's understandable. He needs to get healthy and show some talent. Unless and until that happens, the only way they'll deal him is if some other team really wants him and will pony up talent the White Sox want.

 

They told him they didn't care what he hit for a reason, they wanted to take the pressure off him and show confidence in him. Maybe they shouldn't do that I guess. They miscalculated on Brian's maturity level though, and it was a bad miscalculation. They didn't think he'd constantly do the "woe is me" act.

 

As for Buehrle and Freddy, they did hold them accountable. Buehrle was in the best shape of his career because Cooper told him he needed to work on conditioning more, and they took Buehrle's commitment into account with the contract extension. Freddy, we know what happened to him.

[Dick Allen]

He's still here because they don't want to give him away, and "not much" is probably what the Sox could get for him right now. It's understandable. He needs to get healthy and show some talent. Unless and until that happens, the only way they'll deal him is if some other team really wants him and will pony up talent the White Sox want.

 

They told him they didn't care what he hit for a reason, they wanted to take the pressure off him and show confidence in him. Maybe they shouldn't do that I guess. They miscalculated on Brian's maturity level though, and it was a bad miscalculation. They didn't think he'd constantly do the "woe is me" act.

 

As for Buehrle and Freddy, they did hold them accountable. Buehrle was in the best shape of his career because Cooper told him he needed to work on conditioning more, and they took Buehrle's commitment into account with the contract extension. Freddy, we know what happened to him.

How much money did they pay Buerhle and Garcia for 2006? They were out of shape. Allen Thomas was the fall guy. Buerhle realized his mistake and got in shape for 2007, which is nice, but doesn't excuse not being in shape for 2006. Why was it Allen Thomas' fault? If it wasn't, why did Ozzie say it was? There's a double standard. I've never heard anyone ever question why the two veterans weren't physically fit enough to pitch a full season successfully. Isn't being out of shape a sign of not so perfect attitude? And I stand by my comment. If Anderson is half the poison you paint him to be, a release is in order. Players who have had far more success than Anderson have been released because of poor attitudes.

[29andPoplar]

How much money did they pay Buerhle and Garcia for 2006? They were out of shape. Allen Thomas was the fall guy. Buerhle realized his mistake and got in shape for 2007, which is nice, but doesn't excuse not being in shape for 2006. Why was it Allen Thomas' fault? If it wasn't, why did Ozzie say it was? There's a double standard. I've never heard anyone ever question why the two veterans weren't physically fit enough to pitch a full season successfully. Isn't being out of shape a sign of not so perfect attitude? And I stand by my comment. If Anderson is half the poison you paint him to be, a release is in order. Players who have had far more success than Anderson have been released because of poor attitudes.

 

Guillen wanted Allen Thomas to come up with a better program for those guys and others. You may know Guillen has a unique way with the English language.

 

If Brian Anderson were half the blameless saint you paint him out to be, he'd be the starting CF for the White Sox.

 

I'll stand by my comments too, because they aren't speculation, I've heard them directly from White Sox personnel. Maybe they were lying to me just for kicks though, who knows.

[Dick Allen]

Guillen wanted Allen Thomas to come up with a better program for those guys and others. You may know Guillen has a unique way with the English language.

 

If Brian Anderson were half the blameless saint you paint him out to be, he'd be the starting CF for the White Sox.

 

I'll stand by my comments too, because they aren't speculation, I've heard them directly from White Sox personnel. Maybe they were lying to me just for kicks though, who knows.

Your status on the team is what matters. Its Allen Thomas' fault if Buehle and Garcia go eat steaks every night for dinner during the offseason, because the proper program is not in place. Its Uribe's fault showing a lack of desire to get better if he does the same thing. Anderson would still have to hit to be starting. That has nothing to do with attitude. They said there was to be a competition for the CF job in spring training, you yourself admitted Anderson slightly outperformed Erstad, yet Erstad got the job. It really doesn't matter, its not like they would have been any better with Anderson in CF. If he really is this awful human being though, its time to get rid of him. So what if you can't get anything for him. Cut him. I think KW isn't as down on him as most think.

[CWSGuy406]

DA is completely right about Anderson being jerked around in 2006. He sucked in the first half at the plate but was still playing a fantastic center field defensively. Second half rolls around, Anderson starts to hit the ball a bit, and he's being jerked in and out of the lineup while Rob Mackowiak is routinely -- and for anyone watching, 'routinely' is not even close to an exaggeration -- losing games for the Sox. Not that it's Mackowiak's fault, BTW -- he said in the press that he's not a CFer and pretty much wasn't prepared to play CF. So Ozzie is now hurting the team to what, prove a point?

 

If Brian Anderson were half the blameless saint you paint him out to be, he'd be the starting CF for the White Sox.

 

Oh puh-lease, give me a f***ing break with this useless hyperbole. Those who defend Anderson have never made him out to be a saint. Yes, he's a young ballplayer with an apparent attitude problem, God forbid! I'm sure that's a first, right? But instead of trying to work through that, this organization screwed things up and compounded the mistake by bringing in Erstad who (predictably) got hurt.

 

And we sit here today not knowing whether is an BA attitude problem child who can play the game at least as an average CFer (see his second half of 2006) or if he's just an attitude problem who sucks. Nope, instead we brought in Darin Erstad, the guy whose balls were massaged by every f***ing person within the organization, every f***ing White Sox beat writer in the city, and he -- quite predictably, might I add -- not only sucked, but got hurt.

 

But at least he did a good job of cheerleading and grinding in the clubhouse, right? I guess the Sox see that as money well spent.

Edited November 3, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[max power]

Hahaha, good post. I hate strawman arguments.

[SkokieSox]

He said his wrist isn't 100% yet. If he goes to winter ball and bombs, injury or no, he'll have a more difficult time getting a look from another team. Since he obviously isn't in the plans for the Sox, that has to be his primary goal. So why would he go before he's healthy?

 

Btw, you really need to learn how to recognize sarcasm.

 

Was it written in green, or do I know the writer personally or something? You really need to learn how to communicate sarcasm. In any case, he's not complaining about being healthy, he's complaining about being sent down, not being called up, and being told to go to winter ball without a personal visit from KW, Ozzie, and JR with some flowers and *** kissing about how great they think he is, despite his inability to hit the ball.

[CWSGuy406]

Was it written in green, or do I know the writer personally or something? You really need to learn how to communicate sarcasm.

 

Supernuke's post looked to be -- quite clearly, might I add -- sarcasm. If you need green to distinguish that, I think WSI can use more people who bow at any and every decision the White Sox make.

[SkokieSox]

Well then they should be consistent with all the players. Their best players should also be personally responsible for their shortcomings. Anderson is still not 100% physically, but why is everything his fault when in 2006 when Buerhle and Freddy Garcia were both pretty out of shape it wasn't their fault? Ozzie blamed Allen Thomas. Of course, it wasn't Thomas' fault that Uribe was fat, but I digress. Blame Anderson for a bad 2006, but I blame the White Sox for setting him up to fail, with no reasonable back up plan. Telling him that they don't care what he hits, then crying that he's not hitting.They had no back up plan. As for all the talk that he was a bad teammate, I seem to recall that when AJ got sucker punched, the 2 players that had his back the most were Pods who was right on the play, but I still give him credit, and Brian Anderson. We here all the "inside info" about Anderson watching TV not working on improving, he's a bad teammate etc. If that is 100% accurate, what is he still doing in the organization?

 

The big difference between those guys and Anderson is that they have performed at the MLB level. Setting him up to fail? Was Josh Fields set up to fail? Was Crede, Garland, MB, Rowand... Rowand was sent down twice, and he stayed resilient. What's Anderson's deal? I liked him sticking up for AJ as well, but when that's your best argument to bring him up to the majors, we had better start getting into some major brawls in 08.

[SkokieSox]

Supernuke's post looked to be -- quite clearly, might I add -- sarcasm. If you need green to distinguish that, I think WSI can use more people who bow at any and every decision the White Sox make.

 

Well it's super you think so...

 

As you may not have noticed, I'm not defending a White Sox move, but demonstrating my lack of enthusiasm to Anderson's comments. One isn't relevant to the other in this case.

[Dick Allen]

The big difference between those guys and Anderson is that they have performed at the MLB level. Setting him up to fail? Was Josh Fields set up to fail? Was Crede, Garland, MB, Rowand... Rowand was sent down twice, and he stayed resilient. What's Anderson's deal? I liked him sticking up for AJ as well, but when that's your best argument to bring him up to the majors, we had better start getting into some major brawls in 08.

If his attitude is bad and he can't hit and he won't work on it, he's not going to get better so he should be released. But the White Sox aren't releasing him. Something tells me there's a little more to the story.