Alexei full-time at second base?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Ramirez and Uribe are essentially the same player, so I'm not really concerned who gets more playing time.

 

Except Ramirez is younger, faster, better hitter, and can play the OF. And after Ramirez getting playing time the past couple weeks, im not so sure that they aren't very close in defensive ability. Ramirez has a lot more athletic ability, and they both have rocket arms. Give me the younger, faster player over Uribe please.

[lostfan]

Ramirez and Uribe are essentially the same player, so I'm not really concerned who gets more playing time.

What? Is this a serious post?

[NorthSideSox72]

What? Is this a serious post?

Shhhh, stop interrupting the death match here. I think we may see a record for bizarre points made if these two keep at it.

 

[eickevinmorris]

I mean in terms of value to the team. I know Ramirez is hot, but having watched both he and Uribe, I think their offensive and defensive games (in sum) are equal to one another.

[RockRaines]

I mean in terms of value to the team. I know Ramirez is hot, but having watched both he and Uribe, I think their offensive and defensive games (in sum) are equal to one another.

Huh? Not really. Alexei has been range defensively and has more tools offensively. I would say they really arent that close to the same player.

[eickevinmorris]

Huh? Not really. Alexei has been range defensively and has more tools offensively. I would say they really arent that close to the same player.

Agree to disagree.

[lostfan]

I mean in terms of value to the team. I know Ramirez is hot, but having watched both he and Uribe, I think their offensive and defensive games (in sum) are equal to one another.

I really have no idea what you're basing this statement on. Stats? Alexei doesn't even have 100 ABs in the majors yet.

[fathom]

Why is there even discussion about who should be playing 2nd base right now? Ramirez is giving us 2 to 3 terrific at bats every game. I never expected him to have the plate presence that he's showing so far. Hopefully he gets more comfortable on the bases, and starts being a threat there.

[Dick Allen]

Why is there even discussion about who should be playing 2nd base right now? Ramirez is giving us 2 to 3 terrific at bats every game. I never expected him to have the plate presence that he's showing so far. Hopefully he gets more comfortable on the bases, and starts being a threat there.

Its documented I'm Uribe's biggest fan, but Ramirez should be playing until he goes bad.

[NorthSideSox72]

In the Trib article about Ozzie's rant, I found this little blurb buried near the bottom:

 

The only players who appear immune to major changes are A.J. Pierzynski, Jermaine Dye, Carlos Quentin, Cabrera and Alexei Ramirez, who appears to have seized the starting second base job from Juan Uribe.

 

Sometimes Gonzo knows things that others don't, so, maybe we really will have Alexei playing regularly there. That would be good news.

 

[DBAHO]

Yeah it's a no brainer.

 

Until he's stops hitting, Alexei is the guy.

 

Uribe's defense has been excellent, but Alexei's offensive production over the past few weeks outweighs that.

 

And Ramirez hasn't been terrible at 2nd base defensively by any means.

 

This team needs all of the hot hitters they can get ATM.

[Princess Dye]

people still talking about Alexei like he's a prospect

 

 

He's 26, Uribe's 29

 

 

AR needs to play

Edited June 2, 2008 by Princess Dye

[lostfan]

There's still some development involved with Alexei. We shouldn't be expecting him to hit .295 with 18 home runs. There's an adjustment period, and he's handling it a lot better than I thought he would.

[Cubano]

He played in a league that is equivalent to high A, or a poor AA. He is learning on the job, and doing a damn fine job of it. He is signed for four years.

 

He still could be considered a prospect.

 

 

Tony,

 

I am Cuban and I follow Cuban baseball very closely. There is no way that the Cuban League es A + or AA.

 

 

 

[joejoesox]

He played in a league that is equivalent to high A, or a poor AA. He is learning on the job, and doing a damn fine job of it. He is signed for four years.

 

He still could be considered a prospect.

 

Steve Stone strongly disagrees with you. He compared Alexei's previous league to a step between AAA & MLB level, yesterday.

[NorthSideSox72]

Tony,

 

I am Cuban and I follow Cuban baseball very closely. There is no way that the Cuban League es A + or AA.

First, welcome to the board!

 

Second, I tend to agree that calling it Low A is probably not the case. I've heard more like AA. But its important to note that it isn't uniform, I'd bet. Some aspects of the game may be higher, others lower.

 

[Cubano]

OK, folks.

 

I am new to this forum. I have been reading your comments with great enjoyment, but somehow I had to wait for a long time for my registration to be accepted. Alexei like any other player will make mistakes. It seems that when you are a rookie, your mistakes are seen with magnifying glasses.

 

Alexei is a finish product. He did not play 2B in Cuba except in emergency basis with the Cuban National team as a super utility. He played SS in his rookie season with his hometown team, the Pinar del Rio Green Sox. This is the same team as Jose Contreras, Danys Baez and Pedro Lazo who came in relief to shutdown the Dominican team in the WBC # 1.

 

After his first season with the Green Sox, he moved to CF where he played must of the time. It is understandable that his has some learning to do in 2B and SS especially because in MLB runners try to break double play harder than in Japan and Cuba. We have a more courteous way of playing the game. That does not mean our way is wrong.

 

Alexei can hit for some power and he has speed. The White Sox do not have speed in the lineup and Alexei can provide some. He is a smart player and even though he was tagged out the other day going from second to third, he probably thought the ball had a chance to hit the ground. Remember, he was given the starting job at 2B against the Indians best two pitchers and in very cold temperatures. He did not do to good and Guillen panicked. Guillen should kept sending him out there instead of benching him and bringing him here and then.

 

 

In the last 7 games, Alexei has been the second best 2B in the majors offensively behind Casilla.

 

 

 

Can Alexei come close to his Cuban league average numbers?

SN TEAM AB R H AVE 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB DB SO BR CR 
7 PRI 2820 455 827 0.334 134 26 90 397 1283 267 42 281 44 32

SN=Cuban Seasons

Average in SN

403 AB per SN

118 H per SN

19 doubles per SN

4 triples per SN

13 HR per SN

57 RBI per SN

38 BB per SN

40 SO per SN

6 SB per SN

5 CS per SN

183 Total Bases per SN

 

 

 

 

 

[False Alarm]

FWIW BP did a study a few years back trying to gauge the level of competition in Cuba's Serie Nacional, their highest league. an excerpt:

 

The difficulty rating is the ratio between what a run is worth in this league and what it is worth in the major leagues. A player who produced 100 runs in Cuba, even after allowing for the offensive level of the league, would only be expected to produce 45.6 runs in the majors. The closest American league to that level of play is the New York-Penn League, which over the last four years has averaged a .436 rating. The next one above it would be the Midwest League, which has averaged .484 over the last four years.

 

So yes, I am saying that the top Cuban league is about equal, skill-wise, to the New York-Penn league. I'm sure that will come as a shock to many, seeing as how highly everyone regards the players on that particular island, but it does go a long way towards explaining why so many Cuban players have performed so poorly--our expectations were too high.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3794

 

so yeah, they say A-ball.

 

one caveat is that jose contreras was an important data point for them, and this study was just prior to the 2005 season.

 

edit: i love alexei btw. ain't knocking him at all.

Edited June 2, 2008 by False Alarm

[letsgoarow]

OK, folks.

 

I am new to this forum. I have been reading your comments with great enjoyment, but somehow I had to wait for a long time for my registration to be accepted. Alexei like any other player will make mistakes. It seems that when you are a rookie, your mistakes are seen with magnifying glasses.

 

Alexei is a finish product. He did not play 2B in Cuba except in emergency basis with the Cuban National team as a super utility. He played SS in his rookie season with his hometown team, the Pinar del Rio Green Sox. This is the same team as Jose Contreras, Danys Baez and Pedro Lazo who came in relief to shutdown the Dominican team in the WBC # 1.

 

After his first season with the Green Sox, he moved to CF where he played must of the time. It is understandable that his has some learning to do in 2B and SS especially because in MLB runners try to break double play harder than in Japan and Cuba. We have a more courteous way of playing the game. That does not mean our way is wrong.

 

Alexei can hit for some power and he has speed. The White Sox do not have speed in the lineup and Alexei can provide some. He is a smart player and even though he was tagged out the other day going from second to third, he probably thought the ball had a chance to hit the ground. Remember, he was given the starting job at 2B against the Indians best two pitchers and in very cold temperatures. He did not do to good and Guillen panicked. Guillen should kept sending him out there instead of benching him and bringing him here and then.

 

 

In the last 7 games, Alexei has been the second best 2B in the majors offensively behind Casilla.

 

 

 

Can Alexei come close to his Cuban league average numbers?

SN TEAM AB R H AVE 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB DB SO BR CR 
7 PRI 2820 455 827 0.334 134 26 90 397 1283 267 42 281 44 32

SN=Cuban Seasons

Average in SN

403 AB per SN

118 H per SN

19 doubles per SN

4 triples per SN

13 HR per SN

57 RBI per SN

38 BB per SN

40 SO per SN

6 SB per SN

5 CS per SN

183 Total Bases per SN

 

Excellent post...Welcome!

[Cubano]

One last thing about Ramirez for now. He is trying to compete for a job as oppose as given the job. He is probably trying to impress so bad that he may make some mistakes for trying to hard. The other day Guillen pinch hit for him and I wonder what Alexei thought about this. Alexei has been one of the better hitters lately and he got pinch hit. How about pinch hitting for Swisher or somebody else?

 

 

 

I do not think the Cuban league is MLB equivalent because it has 16 teams (too many). There are many players ready to play MLB caliber baseball like Contreras, Alexei, El Duque, etc. Remember, some players change leagues and they struggle and it is just going from the American league to the National league. Therefore, imagine Alexei coming from another league and another country.

 

 

Alexei hit third with the Green Sox.

[Cubano]

FWIW BP did a study a few years back trying to gauge the level of competition in Cuba's Serie Nacional, their highest league. an excerpt:

 

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3794

 

so yeah, they say A-ball.

 

one caveat is that jose contreras was an important data point for them, and this study was just prior to the 2005 season.

 

edit: i love alexei btw. ain't knocking him at all.

 

 

Yes, False Alarm. I am familiar with that study from BP. BP compared our league vs Class A Short season New York-Penn League. Can someone name some players from that league able to come to the big leagues right now or at least be an star in AAA?

 

I did an study last year or so. I compared the Cuban pitchers and the Japanese pitchers. Remember, the Japanese come to the states with Hollywood type red carpet introduccion. They are signed to big money contract and are heanded starting jobs. They bring their families too. Cuban have to escape first in they are lucky. Then, they have to go to the draft or go to a third country to beg for legal papers so they can negociate with more than one team as free agents. During this process, Cuban players loose a lot of time away from competitive baseball. Most of the time they start in the minors to regain their groove.

 

Everybody seems to believe that the Japanese league is the second major leagues. I do not follow that school of thought. I am not saying the Cuba league is the second majors either.

 

I compared the ERA of the Cuban pitchers vs Japanese, Dominican, Venezuelan, Mexican and Puerto Rican pitchers. The best comparison is with the Japanese because there are not too many like Dominican and they come from another league. Anyways here is what I found taking only their rookie season:

 

Venezuela Team ERA 4.29

Japan Team ERA 4.35

Mexico Team ERA 4.37

Cuba Team ERA 4.38

Dominican R. Team ERA 4.43

Puerto Rico Team ERA 4.49

 

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Alexei has been great, especially since he has been given a full time role. In may he hit .295 .313 .443 .755.

[DBAHO]

Right now, for comparisons sake, I'd probably think a lot of Yuniesky Betancourt when I think of Ramirez.

 

But I think Alexei's capable of producing more pop offensively, which he's shown over the past few days, but I think Betancourt's probably the better of the 2 defensively, even though Alexei is more versatile (which will definitely help him in the future, although it'd be good if he could settle down at 1 position for a while).

[lostfan]

Tony,

 

I am Cuban and I follow Cuban baseball very closely. There is no way that the Cuban League es A + or AA.

I read all your posts (they're good btw) and I'm just going to respond as if they were all one. edit: those ERA numbers are really interesting btw.

 

It seems to me that you interpret people comparing the level of competition within Cuba to high A ball to be saying the level of talent of Cuban players is going to be lower as a result. I don't really see it that way - baseball more than any sport (maybe basketball might compare) is a game of development and progression. In order to become better you have to move up to each pro level to face tougher competition and adjust to it or at some point you max out. So Cuban baseball is obviously a higher level than, say, semi-pro or college, but it's not quite AAA (Japan is, IMO). That's not to say at all that Cuban players won't project to MLB well, or aren't talented - just that they're going to take time to get adjusted to facing the best collection of players in the world and also get adjusted to American baseball and lifestyle. Cuban players are good, no doubt (as seen in the Olympics and WBC) but they only face other Cuban players in a diluted league. So the best players from Cuba won't see their full potential there.

 

All this is JMO. That being said, I thought highly of Alexei when he was signed, but I expected him to go through a rough adjustment period if he didn't play in AAA, and he's surprising me right now.

Edited June 2, 2008 by lostfan

[False Alarm]

Yes, False Alarm. I am familiar with that study from BP. BP compared our league vs Class A Short season New York-Penn League. Can someone name some players from that league able to come to the big leagues right now or at least be an star in AAA?

not many. that's one reason i'm so impressed with ramirez coming in and holding his own in the majors.

 

it's interesting stuff and i'm sure BP's study didn't really have enough data to accurately gauge the competition in the cuban league. it's much tougher for a cuban to make the jump to the majors for all the reasons you mentioned. i just mentioned the study for the sake of discussion.

 

welcome, by the way, cubano.