Every Year I Plan on Following Spring Training ... but

[Kalapse]

The biggest thing with Josh is his bat speed, he's finally catching up to fastballs, something he couldn't do in 2007. That's the sort of thing that tends to carry over into the regular season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The biggest thing with Josh is his bat speed, he's finally catching up to fastballs, something he couldn't do in 2007. That's the sort of thing that tends to carry over into the regular season.

I think that has a lot to do with just picking up the ball earlier out of the pitchers hand . He can actually see it now instead of it being just a blur.

[beautox]

Some Soxtalkers have requested that, because of the dearth of talent at CF, Ozzie start Alexei there, play Beckham at SS because of his demonstrable talent (he does appear to be pretty strong defensively there as well), and put Getz at 2b. Implicit in this request is an assumption that either Beckham or Getz will lead off, which I don't think KW or Ozzie want in the slightest as they don't want to rush either player. Alexei has yet to start in CF so at this point it appears that this is a pipe dream, though it may leave the most talented group on the field. Anderson started crushing yesterday and continued today, but that's still only 2 days out of the 40 or so in spring training. The next few weeks will be interesting for the Triangle, that's for sure. It's pretty much the only sore subject on Soxtalk right now.

 

I would love to see Ozzie and KW just go with the most talented players across the board

 

a line up like this excites me.

 

SS R Beckham

2B L Getz

RF R Quentin

LF R Dye

DH L Thome

1B R Konerko

CF R Ramirez

C L AJP

3B R Fields

[beautox]

Also what are Beckham, Fields and Getz's stats across the board for ST

 

i know fields is hitting .423 re-dick

[justBLAZE]

C Getz CWS 2B 11 30 2 10 3 0 1 6 16 2 3 0 1 .394 .533 .333

Beckham CWS SS 12 28 6 9 5 0 2 6 20 2 1 1 0 .387 .714 .321

J Fields CWS 3B 9 26 6 11 3 0 1 3 17 3 5 0 2 .483 .654 .423

[justBLAZE]

Chris Getz is doing really well right now.

[beautox]

C Getz CWS 2B 11 30 2 10 3 0 1 6 16 2 3 0 1 .394 .533 .333

Beckham CWS SS 12 28 6 9 5 0 2 6 20 2 1 1 0 .387 .714 .321

J Fields CWS 3B 9 26 6 11 3 0 1 3 17 3 5 0 2 .483 .654 .423

 

thank you

[qwerty]

Betemit can get a ton of AB's against righties since he crushes them.

 

There is no way a .799 ops against righties constitutes as crushing the ball. Compared to how how poorly he hits left handers... you may have something. There is no arguing he will be a valuable assest for us as long as he sees the least amount of lefties as possible. We have not had this type of offensive weapon in quite a long time.

 

I did find this on page 5 of the recent "Ozzie doesnt think Owens is playing too well" thread dated March 12th from Balta : "With the way he's hitting right now and the fact that he seemingly can't run, I have difficulty thinking anyone else would grab him on waivers to put him on their big league roster."

 

Not only does he think he can't hit or run but doesn't even see a place for him in the majors. Surely not an Owens fanboy. I know I vowed not to speak for him but this speaks for itself and took minimum research.

 

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If Owens could hit .290 and steal at a 75% clip, I think the numbers said he could have been as effective for us as Podsednik was in early 2005, because that's exactly what Pods was doing. He's patient enough, takes walks, and would be all over the basepaths. His numbers in 2007 suggested he might be able to do that in the big leagues.

 

Now, he's 0/the spring in SB's still right? And he's hitting around .220. I can take no slugging from him if he's giving me OBP and moving himself in to scoring position. He's doing neither of the things I said he needed to do. He's getting a totally fair chance right now. He can have another chance at AAA this season if he keeps struggling.

 

All I want with these guys is for them to get a fair chance. That's all I asked for Anderson...a fair chance at the position. That's all I wanted to see for Owens. He's gotten it, he's crapping his pants, that's all I needed to see. As long as we make decisions based on baseball, and not other things...I'm content.

 

 

This is what i have been referring to. How much more fair could the sox have been with owens?

 

Being patient can only go so far, there has to come a point when realization sets in that a player is not cut out for the job. Owens being 25 years old and getting his first crack at the majors was a great indicator in the first place. This guy has had everything served up on a silver platter and done nothing but fail. Sure there are a good amount of players that finally reach the majors at that age, but none of them are slap hitters and try to reach base via the bunt. None... and there is a reason for it. The average orginzation realizes it is not worth their time, money, and effort on something that can be found anywhere else a dime a dozen. Most times when that sort of situation arises they are the big time hitters who needs to cut down on the holes in their swing, plate patience, take the ball the other way, etc.

 

Owens has spent three, count them three consecutive parts of a season in triple a. Now that would might not have even be too bad if he was 23, 24, and 25 and repeating triple a. Actually, it probally still would have, would have meant he hit a wall, which he clearly has. I don't know many if any mlb players who had to repeat any given minor league level three times to make it and stick in the majors. Owens is a 28 year old who is only getting slower, which has been literally his only asset his entire professional baseball career.

 

Jerry owens ceiling and floor is very similar to that of joey gathright. That is far from a compliment. Even owens topping out to be the player gathright is unlikely, gathright is a better defender and the ''faster'' of the two. Both hurt their teams so much it is actually kinda sickening. Neither are major league caliber players.

 

You also mention how you could deal without his slugging. The ultimate job of a leadoff hitter is to score runs. Yes, they are only guaranteed to leadoff an inning once a game, i realize that. The problem with being content with absolutely no slugging is that there is a very direct translation when it comes to ops and runs scored. That concept seems too far-fetched actually, as a player diving into second base (while putting the team in jeopardy of an out) is apparently that much sexier. Yay for dirt on pants!

Edited March 17, 2009 by qwerty

[Balta1701]

The biggest thing with Josh is his bat speed, he's finally catching up to fastballs, something he couldn't do in 2007. That's the sort of thing that tends to carry over into the regular season.

That bodes very well for Josh. His biggest flaw in his numbers is the strikeouts. He was on a 200k a year pace in 2007 when he got his first stint. If he could cut that to a 125 k a year pace just by making better contact, with the same BABIP, he's suddenly nearly a .300 hitter.

[lostfan]

I would assume that Josh at least wore contacts or something before?

[NorthSideSox72]

After 2007, I was one of the few who was OK with the idea of Owens starting in 2008. I really felt he could get on base at a .350-ish clip, and steal 75-80% of bases, while playing OK defense in CF (other than his noodle arm). Not great, but, acceptable, if he was the weakest player in the lineup. I admit it.

 

But I am starting to be even less happy now, looking at his 2008, his injuries, his 2009 spring, and oddly enough... his attitude. Not that I think he is a bad guy, but, I think his head is in the wrong place. His quotes always say that he has only one goal - to be healthy. WTF is that? No, your goal is to be a good centerfielder and a good hitter. That concerns me as well.

 

I am no fan of BA, other than his defense, but I think he is the better option right now, no doubt.

 

[Kalapse]

So it's really looking like we're going to see a Wise, Pierzynski, Quentin top 3 to start the season. Poor, poor Carlos, hit those 2 in front of him for an entire season and he'll finish with 60 RBIs. The Sox's brass is so f***ing two faced, they're always preaching OBP at the top of the lineup and yet we're probably going to start the year with 2 guys at the top who could easily combine for a sub-.300 OBP in 2009. I hope none of the run producers in the middle of the lineup have incentives for RBI in their contracts because those situations should be few and far between at least to start the season.

 

Sox

1. Wise - .293 2008 OBP

2. Pierzynski - .312

 

Twins

1. Span - .387

2. Casilla - .333

 

Indians

1. Sizemore - .374

2. DeRosa? - .376

 

Tigers

1. Granderson - .365

2. Polanco - .350

 

Royals

1. Crisp - .344

2. Aviles - .354

 

Yep, the Sox will start the season with BY FAR the worst combo at the top in terms of OBP in the AL Central. It's not even close. Luckily Wise and Pierzynski will make up for their severe lack of OBP skills by doing "all the little things" which we all know is all that matters.

 

I'm glad we're going to hit Chris Getz at the bottom of the order to keep the pressure off him, it's a shame that you can't hit rookies/young players at the top of the lineup, just don't tell this to Ron Gardenhire.

[lostfan]

After 2007, I was one of the few who was OK with the idea of Owens starting in 2008. I really felt he could get on base at a .350-ish clip, and steal 75-80% of bases, while playing OK defense in CF (other than his noodle arm). Not great, but, acceptable, if he was the weakest player in the lineup. I admit it.

 

But I am starting to be even less happy now, looking at his 2008, his injuries, his 2009 spring, and oddly enough... his attitude. Not that I think he is a bad guy, but, I think his head is in the wrong place. His quotes always say that he has only one goal - to be healthy. WTF is that? No, your goal is to be a good centerfielder and a good hitter. That concerns me as well.

 

I am no fan of BA, other than his defense, but I think he is the better option right now, no doubt.

Co-sign

[ILMOU]

I'm glad we're going to hit Chris Getz at the bottom of the order to keep the pressure off him, it's a shame that you can't hit rookies/young players at the top of the lineup, just don't tell this to Ron Gardenhire.

 

^^^^^^^^

 

Nice sarcasm, and total agreement. This "too much pressure" batting leadoff crap is just that.

 

[Balta1701]

If Wise winds up struggling at the top of the order and Getz is doing well at the bottom, I don't think it'll take Ozzie long to start making switches. At least last year he was far less stubborn with lineup slots than I thought he'd be. It took him all of a couple weeks in April to move that Quentin guy up to 3rd, AJ up to 2nd, Cabrera up to 1st, and Swisher down in the order when Swisher wasn't hitting and TCQ was.

[Kalapse]

If Wise winds up struggling at the top of the order and Getz is doing well at the bottom, I don't think it'll take Ozzie long to start making switches. At least last year he was far less stubborn with lineup slots than I thought he'd be. It took him all of a couple weeks in April to move that Quentin guy up to 3rd, AJ up to 2nd, Cabrera up to 1st, and Swisher down in the order when Swisher wasn't hitting and TCQ was.

It's just a poorly constructed roster. When your only options for the top of the lineup are your sub .300 OBP career minor leaguer CF, sub .320 OBP catcher and SS or the unspectacular rookie 2B something is wrong. No matter who the Sox go with in the 1 and 2 spots on opening day they'll have by far the lowest combined 2008 OBP of any 1-2 combo in the AL Central.

[beautox]

It's just a poorly constructed roster. When your only options for the top of the lineup are your sub .300 OBP career minor leaguer CF, sub .320 OBP catcher and SS or the unspectacular rookie 2B something is wrong. No matter who the Sox go with in the 1 and 2 spots on opening day they'll have by far the lowest combined 2008 OBP of any 1-2 combo in the AL Central.

 

and if they went with Beckham and Getz?

 

i would like to see what soxtalk as a whole think are realistic projections for Beckham and Getz if they make the team as starters at SS and 2B

[claydude14]

If Wise winds up struggling at the top of the order and Getz is doing well at the bottom, I don't think it'll take Ozzie long to start making switches. At least last year he was far less stubborn with lineup slots than I thought he'd be. It took him all of a couple weeks in April to move that Quentin guy up to 3rd, AJ up to 2nd, Cabrera up to 1st, and Swisher down in the order when Swisher wasn't hitting and TCQ was.

Actually the change didn't happen til the first week of May. Quentin was still low in the order when I saw a game in Toronto the first weekend in May. I think the change may have happened the next day, actually (a day after the blow up dolls incident).

[Kalapse]

Carlos first got a start in the 3 hole during game #40 (May 14th, @ Angels, the grand slam game) he didn't hit anywhere else after that day. He spent the 9 previous games in the 2 hole so he moved to the top of the lineup on May 5th, game #31 (the final game of that awful 4 game series sweep by the Jays).

[JohnCangelosi]

Wise leading off will be a disaster. But what lineup would you like to see given the players we have?

[justBLAZE]

If they won't bat Getz leadoff I still think he might bat second.

[JohnCangelosi]

What about Beckham in the leadoff spot? Does he have the patience and eye to be one (for this year at least)? I think he'd be a really nice player in the 2 hole...

 

[Kalapse]

If they won't bat Getz leadoff I still think he might bat second.

Ozzie has said that he'd like to ease Getz into the lineup via the 8 or 9 spot in the batting order, if he were willing to hit him second then why not just go all the way and lead him off? Is there exponentially greater pressure batting 1st in inning #1 as opposed to hitting second?

 

What about Beckham in the leadoff spot? Does he have the patience and eye to be one (for this year at least)? I think he'd be a really nice player in the 2 hole...

He's not making the team, with the way Getz is playing it's making Ozzie's life a lot easier because you can tell he really didn't want to have to carry Beckham on Opening Day. He can send Gordon down for at least a month and start Getz who's hitting .333 w/ a .900+ spring OPS at second to start the year.

[Kalapse]

Wise leading off will be a disaster. But what lineup would you like to see given the players we have?

Assuming Beckham will not make the team.

 

Getz - Regardless of the crippling pressure involved with leading off the bottom of the 1st he's the best fit at the top of the lineup given his tools as a hitter

Ramirez - Outside of Getz there are no other high/moderate OBP hitters left to hit in the 2 hole, at least with Alexei hitting second you're getting one of your best hitters more plate appearances and late in close games I want him getting that 4th or 5th PA that might not be afforded to a #6 or #7 hitter and will be given to a mediocre offensive player like Pierzynski in Ozzie's lineup.

Quentin

Dye

Thome

Konerko

Pierzynski

Fields

Anderson/Wise

[Cali]

^ I agree with that line-up.

 

Also, I dont care how well Richard is doing this ST, he is NOT a big league starter. He proved it last season, he'll get through 4 or 5 innings then blow-up. Every line-up adjusted after one AB. He's suited for long-relief out of the pen and that's it.

 

Marquez > Richard.

 

Hopefully Contreras can take that 4th spot quickly and Marquez can be #5 until Colon is ready/goes on the DL