Indians' fans jumping off ledges and Wedges

[caulfield12]

Posted by VAIndian on 04/14/09 at 11:55PM

I hate to echo the comments of my learned posters who have gone before me. So, in essence, I won't (to a point). The comment has already been made that the Indians were (are) not ready for the season to start. That is an understatement. I have been a faithful follower of Cleveland Indians baseball for 50 of my 66 years. I can't, in recent memory, recall a season's start when there was so much B...S... spread around by management concerning the future of team for that particular year. Smokescreen???? Of course. Just go back and read Professor Wedge's comments about his pitchers every time they threw the ball in Spring Training. Always the same. Always non-committal. Always dripping with B...S.... I have to give Shapiro credit for signing Wood and trading for DeRosa. Both will be excellent acquisitions. The rest of the team, however, with few exceptions (Sizemore, Martinez, J. Lewis, and maybe Lee and Carmona if they come around) are no more prepared to play baseball at the major league level than a Little League team. We could hire the cast from the movie "Major League" and have better prospects. Maybe there are some better players on the team. If so, they have not been given the chance to show it due to a joke called Spring Training. Position players not prepared. Pitchers who have forgotten how to pitch due to poor, poor, poor preparation. Unfortunately, by the time someone wakes up and realizes that the problems are not necessarily with the players, the season will be in the dumpster. Lets get rid of the bush league mentality and holod the players accountable. Stop coddling them. Make them perform. There's an old saying which goes "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got". It's time for Cleveland Indians baseball to give up what they've always done and start playing baseball the way it should be played. No more coddling. No more "Gee, you tried hard". No more "Get'em next time". No more paychecks for those responsible. Make the players play ball. Make the manager hold them accountable. Make the manager accountable. Make the General Manager accountable. If we have to replace 75% of the team, so be it. If we need to replace the manager, so be it. If we need to replace the GM, so be it. If we need to replace the owner, hallelujah - maybe we found the problem.

 

Sorry guys for being so long winded. I just get so frustrated when I see the quality of play from - a major league? team.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...ansas_city.html

For more fun reading...page down.

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

There is always the obvious, they just aren't that good, explanation...

[ThunderBolt]

This 2009-Indians hype was even worse then ther 2008-Tigers hype. The Tigers at least made the necessary moves to look like a pretty decent team on paper, but the Indians rolled the dice on half their holes, and they're paying for that. The writer of this rant was right Shapiro smokescreened everyone, and the national media hype helped, the Indians are not a better team sans Sabathia, and they are realizing that now.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Thunderbolt

[Steve9347]

Per the usual, I believe we'll be worrying about the Twins all year, and the Tribe once again will suck.

[daa84]

they have real problems...Lee is not a true #1 and has a history of being erratic....carmona is the same....then that 3-4-5 is really, really bad....combine that with what looks like a PED-based decline of Hafner, and a pretty poor defensive team and you certainly dont have a recipe for a division title.....

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love sabrmetrics and truly believe in the value they provide to the game, but I honestly think ESPN takes those franchises that utilize it more than others and automatically picks them to win their divisions...i mean, every year people pick the A's and indians, and every year the Angels and Whitesox/Twins are atop the division (2007 notwithstanding)

[NorthSideSox72]

Per the usual, I believe we'll be worrying about the Twins all year, and the Tribe once again will suck.

Having watched these first couple weeks or so, I am starting to think the team that will cause us the most trouble may in fact be KC.

 

[southsider2k5]

Having watched these first couple weeks or so, I am starting to think the team that will cause us the most trouble may in fact be KC.

 

The Twins will be a way better team with Baker and Mauer back.

[NorthSideSox72]

The Twins will be a way better team with Baker and Mauer back.

I think Mauer may be on and off this season, which is a huge blow to that team. And Liriano is just not himself anymore. I think this may finally be the Twins team that falls into the basement, or close to it.

 

[BigSqwert]

Having watched these first couple weeks or so, I am starting to think the team that will cause us the most trouble may in fact be KC.

And they always give us trouble even when they suck. They look like they may stick around for a while.

[SoxFan562004]

it always amazes me when MLB teams see a guy have a career year and then just expect him to do it again. Eventually I expect Lee to have good numbers this year, but to bank on him being a cy young contender again this year is a stretch.

 

For some reason the Indians are always an over hyped team, especially on ESPN. The same thing happened this year, people were just handing them the AL Central on that network by just positively answering all their "ifs" why discounting every other teams "ifs". They were slobbering all over the Wood signing, and yes, in his 2 or 3 appearances he's been good, except they don't have the starters or deep pen to get to him.

 

I'm a firm believer that you can't win a division in April, but you can certainly lose it. The one silver lining of hope for the Tribe is I think the central is going to be a complete crap shoot so if they can go on like a 5 out of 6 streak they'll be right back in it.

[SoxFan562004]

they have real problems...Lee is not a true #1 and has a history of being erratic....carmona is the same....then that 3-4-5 is really, really bad....combine that with what looks like a PED-based decline of Hafner, and a pretty poor defensive team and you certainly dont have a recipe for a division title.....

 

Now don't get me wrong, I love sabrmetrics and truly believe in the value they provide to the game, but I honestly think ESPN takes those franchises that utilize it more than others and automatically picks them to win their divisions...i mean, every year people pick the A's and indians, and every year the Angels and Whitesox/Twins are atop the division (2007 notwithstanding)

I follow sabrmetrics a little, just not familiar with some of the nitty gritty of it. The one big question I have is does it allow for unknown factors such as career years for players or how young players with very little to no stats will factor in? I'm talking about the win projections we see before the year.

 

Like the '08 season the White Sox were projected for about 77 wins with one stat model, but they won in the high 80's, 89 I believe. Now to me the Sox had a huge unknown of Danks and Floyd in their rotation, so once those guys ended up legit starters, there's your +10 in wins. Not to mention Quentin coming out of nowhere. I would imagine when projecting wins they would have to add some unknown or chaos into a formula.

 

(thank goodness for the edit button, looks like the grammar side of my brain didn't want to wake up this morning)

Edited April 15, 2009 by SoxFan562004

[Dick Allen]

If the White Sox started off 1-7, there would be just as much talk around here as there is in Cleveland right now. In fact, when the Sox dropped to 1-2 or 1-3 someone projected the record through the next couple of series and it was beyond brutal. Cleveland has problems just like every other team. If they win 4 or 5 in a row all of their pessimism will turn to optimism. You really don't have to be all that stellar to compete in the AL Central this year.

[Balta1701]

I think Mauer may be on and off this season, which is a huge blow to that team. And Liriano is just not himself anymore. I think this may finally be the Twins team that falls into the basement, or close to it.

If by "The basement" you mean "Firmly ensconced in to the #2 slot in the division", I'll agree. They're just not going to fall below that.

[Chisoxfn]

There is always the obvious, they just aren't that good, explanation...

Don't tell that to 3/4th's of Soxtalk who was spouting how great there rotation was. Give me a break, they have a mediocre pen (one which will have there closer hurt for at least a 2-3 week stint), a bad rotation (Lee was going to regress, Carmona wasn't as good as he was, Pavano/Reyes, meh), and a mediocre offense (Sizemore is great, Hafner is living in the past, Martinez is solid, Choo was really good last year (not a full season), but as a whole, far from this great lineup every expert and most of Soxtalk were yapping about.

 

Its early in the season so I don't want to say, haha, I was right, but the predictions I wrote down to start the year are looking fairly good.

[Pants Rowland]

I think Mauer may be on and off this season, which is a huge blow to that team. And Liriano is just not himself anymore. I think this may finally be the Twins team that falls into the basement, or close to it.

 

I am not prepared to agree or disagree with this statement, but I do cringe when people doubt the Twins this early in the season. It is a very dangerous game to play. I am not superstitious but it just seems they find a way to address their weaknesses early and make do with what they have the rest of the way.

[caulfield12]

If the White Sox started off 1-7, there would be just as much talk around here as there is in Cleveland right now. In fact, when the Sox dropped to 1-2 or 1-3 someone projected the record through the next couple of series and it was beyond brutal. Cleveland has problems just like every other team. If they win 4 or 5 in a row all of their pessimism will turn to optimism. You really don't have to be all that stellar to compete in the AL Central this year.

 

 

That was me, haha.

 

I think I wrote down 5-11 or 6-10.

 

Now, going on our continued problems in the Trop, to expect the White Sox to be MUCH over .500 is pushing it...and I don't think anyone would be shocked if lost today or lost 3/4 in TB. We SHOULD win 2/3 in Baltimore with their pitching/starters, but the Birds are playing really well and it's on the road.

 

So 1-2-3 games under .500 is certainly not out of the question after this trip.

 

We weren't anything close to that mark on the road last year...so there's no reason to expected marked improvement.

 

OTOH, the Indians are heading for Yankee Stadium after today. They'll probably sweep!!!

[RockRaines]

The decline of Roid Hafner should be a bigger issue than it is in the media. He seems to get a free pass for whatever reason.

[southsider2k5]

The decline of Roid Hafner should be a bigger issue than it is in the media. He seems to get a free pass for whatever reason.

 

Nobody cares about Cleveland?

[Harry Chappas]

Juan Cruz and Coco Crisp and the White Sox run away and hide with this division.

[caulfield12]

Hafner does have 3 homers so far this season and has looked much better...it is their starting pitching/middle relief that is the problem, along with the likes of Ben Francisco and Peralta.

[Princess Dye]

And they always give us trouble even when they suck. They look like they may stick around for a while.

 

Crede will wish he went to his hometown team

[The Ginger Kid]

With that lineup, the Indians seem to be able to get on some serious hot streaks. They did it in '05, 07 and again in'08. I wouldn't count them out by any means. Every team has issues in the pen.