Since Flowers is pretty much ready...

[Jerksticks]

Flowers OBP is ridiculous. Since patience at the plate is one of his best assets, there's really nothing left for him to learn in the minors offensively.

 

I think AJ goes to a contender before the break if we are out of it. If we are still in it then he goes after the season. My thoughts. What are yours?

[Princess Dye]

Too soon. Do we know if he can handle things behind the plate yet?

[BearSox]

Depends on how well we think he can handle the pitching staff and if his D behind the plate is any worse than A.J's (A.J.'s D behind the plate has really gotten bad as he's really slow behind there now).

 

However, I wouldn't say he's completely ready. His average is decent, and he's on pace to K almost 170 times. I'm sure most of the hitting numbers aren't all that impressive (besides OBP) is because of the ball park he plays half of his games in.

 

If we could get something for Pierzynski at the deadline, I wouldn't mind trading him and calling up Flowers. However, I think the team suspects his future is at DH.

[JPN366]

Depends on how well we think he can handle the pitching staff and if his D behind the plate is any worse than A.J's (A.J.'s D behind the plate has really gotten bad as he's really slow behind there now).

 

However, I wouldn't say he's completely ready. His average is decent, and he's on pace to K almost 170 times. I'm sure most of the hitting numbers aren't all that impressive (besides OBP) is because of the ball park he plays half of his games in.

 

If we could get something for Pierzynski at the deadline, I wouldn't mind trading him and calling up Flowers. However, I think the team suspects his future is at DH.

 

He's ready, see my blurb about it on Future Sox.

[GREEDY]

Flowers OBP is ridiculous. Since patience at the plate is one of his best assets, there's really nothing left for him to learn in the minors offensively.

 

I think AJ goes to a contender before the break if we are out of it. If we are still in it then he goes after the season. My thoughts. What are yours?

 

The only way AJ gets traded is if a team wants to:

 

1. Have the opposition run on them all day long (In Hawk voice: "He had no chance").

 

2. Do some serious grindin'.

 

3. Give KW back quite a haul... Kenny knows better than to upset all Sox fans that enjoy fighting, fake fighting, really fake fighting, and knockin' people out in general. Everytime he turned a corner some 35 year old bald dude in a size 62 #12 Sox jersey would be just waiting to get him with a flying forearm smash. Also, the Polish Sox conglomerate will be seriously pissed off (way, way more than the Official Japanese White Hot - White Socks Fanclub was, when Shingo was shown the door) and they will most likely stop screwing in light bulbs all together. Maybe KW could convince Alexei to change his name to Alexski???

 

4. Have Hawk to tune into their games nightly, because you know he has been watchin' AJ since he was just a toddler down in the alligator swamps.

 

5. Watch AJ use his left hand to unbutton his jersey (I am I the only one that finds that part of the commercial a little creepy)?

Edited June 14, 2009 by GREEDY

[Jerksticks]

DH? I mean maybe someday when Phegly is ready, but this kid is going to play catcher for us in the near future. AJ is an awful defensive catcher who supposedly calls a good game; again, supposedly. I don't see how Flowers could be any worse defensively. His bat is special and it belongs in the major leagues.

 

And average??? haha who cares what his average is when he gets on base over 40% of the time. Haha average. You guys that still think we are going to have a bunch of guys who hit over .300 one day crack me up. What evidence suggests this?

[BearSox]

DH? I mean maybe someday when Phegly is ready, but this kid is going to play catcher for us in the near future. AJ is an awful defensive catcher who supposedly calls a good game; again, supposedly. I don't see how Flowers could be any worse defensively. His bat is special and it belongs in the major leagues.

 

And average??? haha who cares what his average is when he gets on base over 40% of the time. Haha average. You guys that still think we are going to have a bunch of guys who hit over .300 one day crack me up. What evidence suggests this?

Do you not realize that AA and MLB are two completely different levels? So what if he gets on base 40% of the time in Birmingham. With his average and strikeout rate, I'd say he'd be lucky to get on base 33% of the time right now.

 

I love Flowers. But by just looking at his numbers, the only stat that really stands out is OBP. And there's more to baseball than just OBP. His high K rate and mediocre average are indicators to me that he isn't completely ready. Considering we suck this year, I wouldn't mind calling him up at all. But I think he's still at least a couple years away from really producing at the major league level.

 

As for defense, yes A.J. sucks, so we likely don't lose much with Flowers... but that doesn't mean you want a s***ty defensive catcher out there. The ideal situation is if Phegley pans out and stays behind the plate with Flowers moving to DH.

[GreatScott82]

Your likely not going to see Flowers until 2011.

[ThunderBolt]

Your likely not going to see Flowers until 2011.

Strongly disagree. Trade deadline 2010 by the latest.

[3E8]

I love Flowers. But by just looking at his numbers, the only stat that really stands out is OBP.

How about power? 4th highest ISO in the Southern League while playing in a pitcher's park

[Balta1701]

These "Call player x up right now!" threads bother me.

[knightni]

Castro is older than Pierzynski.

[NorthSideSox72]

Flower is nowhere near ready defensively, he is still learning the position. AJ gets crap for his inability to throw guys out, but Flowers would be worse than that in every aspect, AND doesn't yet know how to handle pitchers. Trading AJ, who is key to this team and is having a good offensive season, doesn't make sense.

 

And even offensively, he's not "ready", but he's close.

 

2010 we should see AJ one more year, with Lucy backing him up, and Flower in AAA getting one more full year behind the plate learning how to catch. Flowers will be a 2010 callup or a 2011 Opening Day starter. You do NOT want him playing backup for more than half a season, as he needs to be playing to develop. Lucy isn't a future starter, or heck Castro or whomever, just have them back up for now.

 

2011 Opening Day seems ideal, or maybe 2010 midseason as the backup at the earliest. The non-hitting aspects are far more important than the offense for a catcher.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Strongly disagree. Trade deadline 2010 by the latest.

To answer this in more detail...AJ's contract runs through the end of the 2010 season (note to people wanting to deal him - he has a 6 team NTC. I'm betting 1 of those teams is the Giants. Anywho...)

 

AJ isn't likely to be moved before the trade deadline in 2010. He's not worth as much to any other team as he is to us, unless they're really desperate for a catcher. He'll be paid $6.25 million next year, so while he's not ridiculously priced, that is expensive for a .750ish OPS guy in this market.

 

If Flowers is ready...then here's what's likely to happen with him. He'll stay in the minors through September 1, and he'll be added to the 40 man and given a callup in September when the rosters expand. He'll be expected to play some winterball, and he'll have a shot to take the backup/RH catcher role out of ST next year. With AJ under contract they'll be patient and allow him to platoon, to get at bats and adapt to the bigs without being dumped in, and hopefully he'll learn some stuff about the pitching staff and defense from AJ while he's still here. It's possible they could look in to keeping AJ around as a part time player in 2011 if AJ is cheap enough.

[JPN366]

To answer this in more detail...AJ's contract runs through the end of the 2010 season (note to people wanting to deal him - he has a 6 team NTC. I'm betting 1 of those teams is the Giants. Anywho...)

 

AJ isn't likely to be moved before the trade deadline in 2010. He's not worth as much to any other team as he is to us, unless they're really desperate for a catcher. He'll be paid $6.25 million next year, so while he's not ridiculously priced, that is expensive for a .750ish OPS guy in this market.

 

If Flowers is ready...then here's what's likely to happen with him. He'll stay in the minors through September 1, and he'll be added to the 40 man and given a callup in September when the rosters expand. He'll be expected to play some winterball, and he'll have a shot to take the backup/RH catcher role out of ST next year. With AJ under contract they'll be patient and allow him to platoon, to get at bats and adapt to the bigs without being dumped in, and hopefully he'll learn some stuff about the pitching staff and defense from AJ while he's still here. It's possible they could look in to keeping AJ around as a part time player in 2011 if AJ is cheap enough.

 

That seems reasonable. A smooth transition doesn't hurt anyone.

[Chisoxfn]

Flower is nowhere near ready defensively, he is still learning the position. AJ gets crap for his inability to throw guys out, but Flowers would be worse than that in every aspect, AND doesn't yet know how to handle pitchers. Trading AJ, who is key to this team and is having a good offensive season, doesn't make sense.

 

And even offensively, he's not "ready", but he's close.

 

2010 we should see AJ one more year, with Lucy backing him up, and Flower in AAA getting one more full year behind the plate learning how to catch. Flowers will be a 2010 callup or a 2011 Opening Day starter. You do NOT want him playing backup for more than half a season, as he needs to be playing to develop. Lucy isn't a future starter, or heck Castro or whomever, just have them back up for now.

 

2011 Opening Day seems ideal, or maybe 2010 midseason as the backup at the earliest. The non-hitting aspects are far more important than the offense for a catcher.

I hate to say this, well I don't hate it, but I'll break the news, Flowers will be with this team next year at the latest. The Sox love his bat and they'll find a way to get him ab's, maybe with AJ here, maybe with AJ elsewhere, who knows.

[NorthSideSox72]

I hate to say this, well I don't hate it, but I'll break the news, Flowers will be with this team next year at the latest. The Sox love his bat and they'll find a way to get him ab's, maybe with AJ here, maybe with AJ elsewhere, who knows.

OK, well I think that's maybe not a good idea, unless Flowers is a whizz kid at improving defensively in a real hurry.

 

[Balta1701]

OK, well I think that's maybe not a good idea, unless Flowers is a whizz kid at improving defensively in a real hurry.

If his bat is ready, its entirely possible he'll make bigger strides defensively and in game-calling at the big league level than he will hanging out at AAA.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

To answer this in more detail...AJ's contract runs through the end of the 2010 season (note to people wanting to deal him - he has a 6 team NTC. I'm betting 1 of those teams is the Giants. Anywho...)

 

AJ isn't likely to be moved before the trade deadline in 2010. He's not worth as much to any other team as he is to us, unless they're really desperate for a catcher. He'll be paid $6.25 million next year, so while he's not ridiculously priced, that is expensive for a .750ish OPS guy in this market.

 

If Flowers is ready...then here's what's likely to happen with him. He'll stay in the minors through September 1, and he'll be added to the 40 man and given a callup in September when the rosters expand. He'll be expected to play some winterball, and he'll have a shot to take the backup/RH catcher role out of ST next year. With AJ under contract they'll be patient and allow him to platoon, to get at bats and adapt to the bigs without being dumped in, and hopefully he'll learn some stuff about the pitching staff and defense from AJ while he's still here. It's possible they could look in to keeping AJ around as a part time player in 2011 if AJ is cheap enough.

 

That definitely seems like the ideal scenario. Granted, I have not seen him yet, but he at least to me he hasnt had the "wow" type of performance at Birmingham that Beckham, Danks and even Retherford have had. I'm very skeptical on him being ready right now. I'd love to see him get some ABs in September though.

 

[Jerksticks]

This isn't a "Call player X up cuz we are losing" thread. I would say Flowers is as good or better than advertised. Something will have to give eventually here, and I think it will be before AJ's contract is up. Can't keep him down there another full year, can we?

 

Like Balta was sayin, AJ can be Brett Favre to Flowers. Maybe Flowers is our DH in 2010 while AJ plays out his contract/tutors.

[chw42]

If we trade A.J., please let it be to an NL team. After hating his guts for about 3 years when he was with the Twins and then rooting for him these past couple of years, it would break my heart to hate him again.

 

That being said, I think he should be here at least until the end of this season. I don't feel as if Flowers is ready defensively. Plus, A.J. handles the pitching staff pretty well. Something Flowers hasn't gotten the experience with yet.

 

If everything really goes to hell this year, bring Flowers up in August or September and get him some experience.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think people here are underestimating the importance of a catcher's game that doesn't involve hitting. Its not even just defense, although there alone, catcher is the most important position on the field. Its game calling, field captain role, dealing with baseunners, pitcher handling, toughness and agility... there is just so much going on there.

 

Now, look at Flowers - he has played basically 1.5 seasons of pro ball at catcher. That's not enough for players at most positions, let alone catcher, and this guy wasn't a catcher to begin with (in the pros).

 

The best way to develop him is to have him catch as many pitchers and as many games at as many levels as possible. That, to me, means this year in AA, next year in AAA, then maybe he's ready. You make him a backup now, you do gain the influence of AJ (who isn't a great defensive catcher anyway), but you lose everything else. You make him a DH now, forget about him catching worth a damn at all.

 

Put him at AAA next year, maybe he can learn a bit from someone like Lucy who is polished defensively (and maybe Lucy can take some hitting pointers while they are at it), or whomever is around.

 

[Chisoxfn]

The best thing for Flowers development is to have him in the big leagues working with a very good defensive catcher, one known to handle pitchers well. Whether thats AJ or someone we've yet to bring in. That is how they should do it.

[Dizzy Sox]

If Flowers is ready...then here's what's likely to happen with him. He'll stay in the minors through September 1, and he'll be added to the 40 man and given a callup in September when the rosters expand. He'll be expected to play some winterball, and he'll have a shot to take the backup/RH catcher role out of ST next year. With AJ under contract they'll be patient and allow him to platoon, to get at bats and adapt to the bigs without being dumped in, and hopefully he'll learn some stuff about the pitching staff and defense from AJ while he's still here. It's possible they could look in to keeping AJ around as a part time player in 2011 if AJ is cheap enough.

 

I think that is a great plan. Flowers is going to be a great asset to the team, even if he never hits for a good average. How has his D been in B-ham? It gets asked all the time and I don't think I've ever seen an answer from someone who watches the Barons consistently.

[JPN366]

I think that is a great plan. Flowers is going to be a great asset to the team, even if he never hits for a good average. How has his D been in B-ham? It gets asked all the time and I don't think I've ever seen an answer from someone who watches the Barons consistently.

 

His defense is adequate enough. Nothing to be concerned about. His footwork on throws to second could use some tuning, but other than that, he's fine.