NCsoxfan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I know you all probably dont care - but Allen has 4hr in 8games for Reno. Is that a Coors field type ballpark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 For the price the Orioles got Cla Meredith, I would have much preferred him and his ability to get ground balls over Pena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 It's not like Brandon Allen was our best 1b prospect and could have competed for the starting job next september. Right? Right? I'm still bitter, and i really hated this trade. I like Pena's arm, but he was not a worthy return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Ugh. I hate this trade. Let's try to forget about Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:24 PM) Ugh. I hate this trade. Let's try to forget about Allen. On top of it, Pena has been downright terrible for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) On top of it, Pena has been downright terrible for us. And Pena sucked the month before he came to the Sox, so it's even more horrible. He better start bringing value before this season ends to make that trade worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) Established, back of the bullpen power arms can be much harder to find then a DH prospect with a nice stroke. Before the door is shut on Pena, lets see what the Sox coaching staff can do with him. I agree, but I still hate the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) Established, back of the bullpen power arms can be much harder to find then a DH prospect with a nice stroke. I understand your point but try not to also downgrade Allen in the process Tony. It was a brutal deal, people need to move on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hitting .293, .363, with 12 HR and 52 RBI's on the year now. He's going to be a solid 1B or left fielder with his athleticism. I hated this deal only slightly less than the MacDougal one, and Daniel Cortes is struggling this year, but still only 22 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:05 PM) It's way too early to say anything like that. Pena is only 26 and has put up solid numbers in a major league setting. As Goldstein mentioned in his chat with FS, there are scouts around the league that don't project Allen to be a major league hitter. I'm not saying he won't be successful, I am an Allen fan and hope he does great, but whether it is an indictment on the Sox minor system, or them being great at knowing who is going to make it or won't, there haven't been many prospects traded by the Sox to come back and bite them. If Pena can be a serviceable set up man for this team over the next 3-4 years, I'm fine with the trade. If you want to look at it from a glass half empty point of view, which I do for the moment... Pena is 27 years old and has had 3 mediocre/bad seasons in the majors and 1 good season. IF Cooper can fix him and he becomes a reliable set-up man, then I will be fine with the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 04:14 AM) As I said earlier, I guess I am going to let the Sox trading/draft history speak for me on this one, and have some trust they know what they were getting with Pena. Now, if this is another MacDougal trade, we got a problem. They need to work on Pena's delivery. He doesn't seem to have very good balance at the top of his delivery, and if they can fix that, he might be able to get more pinpoint with his pitches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:10 PM) If you want to look at it from a glass half empty point of view, which I do for the moment... Pena is 27 years old and has had 3 mediocre/bad seasons in the majors and 1 good season. IF Cooper can fix him and he becomes a reliable set-up man, then I will be fine with the trade. I still wouldn't as far as a "value" standpoint. I said this in the trade thread below my sig. If they were down on Allen, that's fine.. but for a god damn reliever?! C'mon Kenny, and I've never question his moves.. players or spects.. EVER. Like I said.. Brandon Allen they mighta been very down on, even as a prospect. And I personally think he's very overrated here. But to trade him for a reliever (and looking at his stats a very mediore one) is not a good buisness move. Again.. I've NEVER questioned Kenny in deals.. EVER and I'm even counting when J. Reed (my favorite spect at the time) was traded for Freddy cause he was proven, and a very good pitcher. Hopefully this might turn into a Thornton type deal, though this is a different situation. Allen can suck for all I care, but he mighta been a good trade chip for a bigger deal. You never know. Allen I had very down as a prospect (Dan as well) so I wasn't slurping him as alot of people here have. I just think you sell high on him in a bigger deal for a pitcher/hitter/whatever. From page 1-3 (or 1-4..) I've poured out my feelings on this. This will definitely be one of those thread bumps in the future, whever years it may come. I don't give a damn if Allen is horrid when he gets to the D-Backs, or if he never makes it, Kenny coulda done much better than this (whether it was a bigger deal for a solid SP/hitter, straight up prospects trade, whatever) or if Pena all of a sudden becomes Joe Nathan in a set-up version (or even close), I still wouldn't like it it as far as a value standpoint. Like I said before pages ago here, Allen was very overrated on this board, Dan and myself didn't even crack him in the top 5 in our system, but an athletic, power hitting, very quick 1B like him even if the sox brass was down on him getting a damn reliever from what you couldn't netted with a Shirek, Ely etc. ?! I've never not liked a KW deal.. NOT ONCE since I'm been here in 5 years. I've liked every deal he's made cause of his track record, scouts, etc.. (still defend the Swisher deal/C. Young deal which STILL people hate here) but I can't even do it in this deal which is the very first time for me. I really hope Pena can turn into the RH Matt Thornton, but I still wouldn't like the deal even if he did as I've stated. There's no secret I've said this is the only deal I've ever hated from him. Every deal I liked from KW even if others didn't. (there is still a few of us who defend the Swisher deal FYI) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) It's way too early to say anything like that. Pena is only 26 and has put up solid numbers in a major league setting. As Goldstein mentioned in his chat with FS, there are scouts around the league that don't project Allen to be a major league hitter. I'm not saying he won't be successful, I am an Allen fan and hope he does great, but whether it is an indictment on the Sox minor system, or them being great at knowing who is going to make it or won't, there haven't been many prospects traded by the Sox to come back and bite them. If Pena can be a serviceable set up man for this team over the next 3-4 years, I'm fine with the trade. Allen is a valuable prospect and the price was steep. Pena is going to have to prove his worth, imo, because Allen had good trade value. I also know that there are scouts that like Allen a pretty good amount. I will agree that first baseman are harder to find than back of the pen relievers but Pena has to prove that he really is a back of the pen reliever. I highly doubt this is one of those trades where the Sox rob someone, but trades are supposed to be fair and if this turns into a fair trade than awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I don't see why people are so mad about this trade. To not like it is one thing, but it's surprising to see the type of supreme dislike for it. I highly doubt it will be a trade people will care about in a couple years. It's a good, not great hitting prospect that plays a non-premium position for a middle reliever with the upside of a setup man. It's not the Todd Ritchie trade and it's not going to have a major impact on either franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 10:16 PM) They need to work on Pena's delivery. He doesn't seem to have very good balance at the top of his delivery, and if they can fix that, he might be able to get more pinpoint with his pitches. He also needs to learn how to throw a breaking ball. That little spinner he calls a slider has the left field bleachers written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymizzle Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (danman31 @ Jul 19, 2009 -> 11:51 PM) I don't see why people are so mad about this trade. To not like it is one thing, but it's surprising to see the type of supreme dislike for it. I highly doubt it will be a trade people will care about in a couple years. It's a good, not great hitting prospect that plays a non-premium position for a middle reliever with the upside of a setup man. It's not the Todd Ritchie trade and it's not going to have a major impact on either franchise. He must be from southsidesox. Allot of those guys complain about every move the sox make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 It needs to be made clear that Brandon Allen is NOT just a 1B/DH type. I, and anybody whose seen him play, know that he is a talented athlete. In debating the merit of the trade, please do not call him a "1B/DH" type. That's the thing that bothers me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 08:48 AM) It needs to be made clear that Brandon Allen is NOT just a 1B/DH type. I, and anybody whose seen him play, know that he is a talented athlete. In debating the merit of the trade, please do not call him a "1B/DH" type. That's the thing that bothers me. The thing is those are really the only two positions he can play, unless a team wants to work things over and move him to LF. Allen is a very good defensive 1st baseman but that is what he is, a first baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 11:48 AM) It needs to be made clear that Brandon Allen is NOT just a 1B/DH type. I, and anybody whose seen him play, know that he is a talented athlete. In debating the merit of the trade, please do not call him a "1B/DH" type. That's the thing that bothers me. When you can only play 1B or DH what else are you supposed to be called??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) When you can only play 1B or DH what else are you supposed to be called??? You missed the point. I never said anything about him being defensively versatile. I was saying that he is a complete athlete. He has power, some speed, can hit for high average and plays a gold glove caliber 1B. My point was that some people, in defense of the trade, have implied that he's a one dimensional player, and that is what I have a problem with. I wouldn't lump him in as just a 1B/DH, he is an athletic baseball player whose main position is 1B. I've watched him play more than anybody and the only weakness to his game is that he doesn't hit to the opposite field enough. You wouldn't call Brian Urlacher just a MLB, would you? Allen is not a home run or bust guy, he can hit doubles, triples and steal bases. He is also the best defender at 1B that I've ever seen, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 If Kyle Blanks can play left field, then Brandon Allen can play LF, RF or 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 20, 2009 -> 12:04 PM) I wouldn't lump him in as just a 1B/DH, he is an athletic baseball player whose main position is 1B. You wouldn't call Brian Urlacher just a MLB, would you? I think the difference is semantics. How good at the position he is isn't the issue, it's that there are a lot of really good hitters at 1st. MLB doesn't compare to 1B for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Allen hit another bomb tonight. That's his 6th in a 11 games. Look like a september call-up for the D-Backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...009/268591.html He's No. 1 on BA's prospect hot sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Can we just stop talking about him and pretend he was never in our organization? Never underestimate the power of denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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