The Finer Things In Life

[bmags]

Hey bmags. . . You never indicated your cachaca preference. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

LeBlon is all I've ever had. But when I move to Brazil in 2 weeks I'll try some others, let you know.

[FlaSoxxJim]

LeBlon is all I've ever had. But when I move to Brazil in 2 weeks I'll try some others, let you know.

 

Moving to Brazil?!? Really?? Did I miss that somewhere in here?

 

Congratulations, Man!

[bmags]

Thanks! I'm excited, it's not exactly organized, partially illegal, and open-ended, but not much was going on here and it's something I've wanted to do for a while.

[G&T]

A side-by-side comparison of the two would be enjoyable (witbier is absolutely a favorite style for me). It has been at least a year since I've had the Witte, but I do remember that the exclusive use of sweet orange rather than bitter orange in the gruit and a lack of discernible lactic tang made the beer just a tad less memorable than some other versions. I think Allagash also still uses exclusively raw red winter wheat (an unbelievably tough ingredient to brew with, as I can tell you from personal experience with a few stuck mashes), whereas Witte uses a lot of malted wheat in the grain bill. I don't really think i can tell a taste difference based on the wheat choice, but I give the authenticity nod to Allagash.

 

Again, though, until I can try them side-by-side, I'll reserve final judgement.

 

Man, I wish you could have tried Austin's original Celis White. The first authentic witbier most Americans ever experienced, formulated by the Godfather of Wit and brewed by his daughter, tasting that beer for the first time was an epiphany. I have yet to track down any of Michigan Brewing Company's interpretation of Celis, sadly, so I'm not sure how close they have come to the original.

 

Thirsty for witbier now, with none on hand. . .

 

Well I've been under the assumption that Hoegaarden was the benchmark authentic white (Celis as well, right?). Witte is closer to Hoegaarden than Alagash which is far fruitier. Allagash is closer to what I expect from a hefe rather than a white which is why I take Witte over Allagash if I'm looking for a white. It also makes it interesting to see that you think Allagash is more authentic. Do you mean authentic based on taste, or on ingredients? As stated, I thought whites were less fruity because of less "adjunct" use where hefes would contain more "adjunct." (Adjunct is probably not the right word since it is traditional to the style, but whatever).

 

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

Well I've been under the assumption that Hoegaarden was the benchmark authentic white (Celis as well, right?). Witte is closer to Hoegaarden than Alagash which is far fruitier. Allagash is closer to what I expect from a hefe rather than a white which is why I take Witte over Allagash if I'm looking for a white. It also makes it interesting to see that you think Allagash is more authentic. Do you mean authentic based on taste, or on ingredients? As stated, I thought whites were less fruity because of less "adjunct" use where hefes would contain more "adjunct." (Adjunct is probably not the right word since it is traditional to the style, but whatever).

 

I think you are absolutely spot on to use Hoegaarden as the benchmark, but there really is no historic "ur" witbier we can seek out for comparison. We all need to bear in mind that Hoegaarden was Pierre Celis' interpretation of an extinct style and the flavor profile certainly differs from what a lot of wits would have tasted like a century ago. Historic accounts suggest the Brett lactic sourness of the original wits was a lot more pronounced, for example.

 

I also have perceived a bit of a quality drop in the Inbev-brewed Hoegarden versus the original Celis product (I think - hard to compare 20 year old taste perceptions), though it's still a favorite. I really do need to do a side-by-side tasting of all three — maybe blind so I can decide which I like best without any bias.

 

A lot of the perceived fruitiness in Bavarian weissbier is fermentation byproducts (particularly the esters common to many ales and the phenolic compounds more specific to weissbier that give the clove flavors) that are trademark flavors resulting from the use of particular yeast strains like the legendary Weihenstephan Weizen yeast (Wyeast Labs strain 3068 for homebrewers). So, it's not more "adjunct" per se that is the difference. And you're right, typically we reserve the word "adjunct" for crappy cereal fillers like rice and corn. Bavarian Weissbier would not have been Reinheitsgebot-compliant, of course, but malted wheat is a part of that traditional recipe, so screw the Purity Law.

 

As far as non-standard ingredients, though, witbier has way more than Bavarian wheats do. Bitter and sweet orange peel, coriander, seeds of paradise (in some), unmalted wheat, even addition of lactic acid to mimic the Brett bite. . . lots of oddball things going on here that we don't see in other styles.

 

I'll reserve further judgement until I do a critical tasting. That might be a fun group affair, yes?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Beer Tasting Time!

 

The recent back and forth here about Allagash Brewery prompted me to chill a corked and basketed 750-ml bottle of Allagash Hugh Malone Ale that I've been holding onto for about a year-and-a-half.

 

First, a nod to the pithy name and an explanation to those who don't get the not-so-subtle beer geek humor. Hugh Malone is derived from humulones -- a family of alpha acids that come from hops (Humulus lupulus) and are among the key bittering agents in beer. It's uber beer geeky, and I like it.

 

The homage to hops is appropriate for this beer which is categorized as a Belgian-Style IPA. This is a new, still-evolving Frankenstyle that epitomizes a lot of what is great about craft beer -- namely, don't be afraid to toss out the rule book in the pursuit of a good beer. You'll need your John Madden circles-and-arrows sketch tablet to follow this, but the origin of the Belgian IPA style consisted of some traditional Belgian brewers noticing that most American craft beer fans are absolutely gaga for all-out hoppy ales as well as complex, wonderful but underhopped Belgian brews. In response, they started brewing hoppy versions of beers that are otherwise distinctly Belgian in character, specifically for American markets. These beers were well-received enough to prompt Allagash -- American brewer of fine Belgian-styles -- to produce an American version of this Belgian beer style that borrows heavily from American IPAs that themselves are the over-the-top (in the best way) modern interpretations of a class British ale style.

 

Follow all that?

 

So, on to the beer. Poured into a Chimay chalace, the beer has an inviting cloudy orange hue that has a nice glow to it held to the light. An initial tight, 1-finger white head quickly subsides to a persistent thin cap of fine bubbles that are gearanteed to leave a respectable lace on the glass. The nose is very very subdued, but the little I'm picking up includes hints of lemon, candy sugar, and light hops.

 

Tasting an initial serving over the span of 45 minutes and across a range of temperatures reveals a balanced beer that indeed melds discernable aspects of two very distinct styles. Malt is evident on first taste as are some pleasing cherry and apricot notes. Like many Belgian Tripels, the appreciable 8.5% abv alcohol is not at all aggressive, and you could almost consider this as a session beer if you didn't know better. Mild (by American pale ale standards) hop bitterness is juxtaposed against semi-tart dryness that is evident in the profile of several Belgian ales. The finish is dry-tart, and with not enough lingering hoppiness for me to assert that Allagash knocked this one out of the park.

 

A very nice but not exceptional beer that I believe was a one-off. I'd have it again if the opportunity arises and, more importantly, if someone else shelled out the $16 for a bottle. This is the only beer from the Allagash "Tribute Series" that I've so far had a chance to try. I wish I had opened this bottle maybe 6-12 months earlier to see if the hops were more assertive in the younger bottles. I assume they were, and I may have missed the peak balance on this one.

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

Stone Brewing Company's 13th Anniversary Ale is REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD!

 

How's that for a beer review?

[G&T]

Stone Brewing Company's 13th Anniversary Ale is REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD!

 

How's that for a beer review?

 

90+ IBU's, eh? That might be too much for me in large doses.

 

I am heading to bottle shop today. Sam Adams has a dunkelweizen out which has received some decent reviews. Dark wheats are a favorite of mine so it might be worth a whirl. It feels like fall here anyway. I keep thinking its late September.

 

BTW, your suggestion to have a wheat tasting is a good one. Would be a nice way to send out summer for us northerners. Of course I'll be in FL next weekend where it'll be nice and warm.

Edited August 28, 2009 by G&T

[FlaSoxxJim]

I have a 750 each of Allagash White and Ommegang in the fridge for a witbier throwdown tonight. I'll pick up a 6-pack of Hoegarden as the benchmark and maybe also some Chambly or White Rascal, Great White, or anything else that catches my eye. If the wife is up for setting it up, I may go blind on the tasting. Go out and get 'yer beer!

[G&T]

I have a 750 each of Allagash White and Ommegang in the fridge for a witbier throwdown tonight. I'll pick up a 6-pack of Hoegarden as the benchmark and maybe also some Chambly or White Rascal, Great White, or anything else that catches my eye. If the wife is up for setting it up, I may go blind on the tasting. Go out and get 'yer beer!

 

Your wife is a very understanding woman.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Your wife is a very understanding woman.

 

When she agreed to take a vacation to England so I could do a real ale pilgrimage, and to Ireland so I could drink Guinness straight from St. James Gate I knew she was the person I was supposed to marry.

 

[Leonard Zelig]

Jim, I don't know if you've talked about this before, but what are your thoughts on buying beer(from a store) cold vs. warm?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Jim, I don't know if you've talked about this before, but what are your thoughts on buying beer(from a store) cold vs. warm?

 

That's a good question. For the most part I have found that most beers do fine if they are warmed and cooled back down, as long as the beer didn't get hot. Warm temperatures absolutely destroy beer, but unless the beers have gotten warmer than 80º somewhere along the line, it's not an issue in my own experience.

 

For a long time I considered some of the lower alcohol bottle-conditioned beers to be the exception to that rule. If Sierra Nevada shipped their beer cool and advised consumers to keep it refrigerated than I figured I'd heed those warnings. Anymore though, most of the Sierra products at the stores are in room temperature cases and not in the coolers, so again I think if the beer has not been manhandled along the way and cracked 80º or so, it will be alright.

 

Consistent quality at the consumer end really comes down to how well the beer has been cared for along the way. If the brewery, the warehouse and distributor, and the end retailer all care for the beer they way they are supposed to, you'll get consistently good beer with one or two little bumps along the way. There are some beer stores where I have gotten old, deterioriated, lightstruck, etc., beer and now I've learned to go elsewhere.

[SnB]

Bells has made a resurrgence in Illinois lately. I suppose it was about a year ago I started seeing it around. I try just about everyone I can get my hands on.

 

One brewery I wish sold beer in Illinois is New Glarus. Spotted Cow is one of my favorites.

 

I ordered bell's amber last night because of this thread!

 

 

...it was good. that is all.

 

[G&T]

Alright, I've got my Allagash and Ommegang.

 

I also picked up a Weinstephaner Dark. Can't wait to crack that.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Alright, I've got my Allagash and Ommegang.

 

I also picked up a Weinstephaner Dark. Can't wait to crack that.

 

Alrighty then, it's on like Donkey Kong.

[G&T]

I ordered bell's amber last night because of this thread!

 

 

...it was good. that is all.

 

That's awesome. Happy you liked it.

[G&T]

Alrighty then, it's on like Donkey Kong.

 

Yep. I'm gonna have to tune up my skills to keep up.

[G&T]

Does anyone else reviews beers at ratebeer.com?

 

can you explain to me what all the Orval talk is about? Does it ever end over there? I've been on that site for 2 years (I don't really post in the forums) and there has always been an orval thread.

[G&T]

Don't know if I was supposed to but I've poured my beers.

 

I'm surprised that the appearance is as similar as it is. I saw more orange in the draft version in Maine. Both with plenty of white head.

 

The Allagash has both a fuller mouthfeel and is more bitter. I assume that's the orange mentioned earlier. The Witte is smoother, but watery. There's also a lemony finish.

Edited August 28, 2009 by G&T

[FlaSoxxJim]

Beginning a five beer wit throwdown now.

[FlaSoxxJim]

And now my picks from the witbier throwdown. . .

 

First, a look at the battlefield.

[FlaSoxxJim]

And now, the outcome.

 

The five beers that Mrs. Flaxx graciously set up for a blind tasting:

 

• Hoegarden

• Witte (Ommegang)

• Allagash White

• Avery White Rascal

• Unibroeu Chambly

 

Coming in at number 5. . . Surprisingly, Witte. Just had nowhere near the complexity of any of the other wits on the table. Looked good in the glass, but the nose and flavor knocked this one out in the first pass. And I really was surprised that I didn't think better of this one when the Mrs. revealed the identity of the beer.

 

Number 4. . . Unibroue Chambly. I was honestly surprised I couldn't 100% spot the Unibroue beer in the mix on first tasting. In my mind's memory I had a lot more left-field stuff going on in this beer that wasn't evident in the blind tasting. Obviously, I'm projecting all the 9% Unibroue beers onto this moderate 5% offering. Not saying Chambly isn't a nice beer, jsut didn't make the final table.

 

Number 3 – Genuinely shocked that it's my near and dear Alagash. I assumed Hoegarden might edge it out, but I didn't anticipate I'd rate another domestic interpretation higher,

 

Two-Way Tie for top spot. . . Hoegaden (no real surprise) and . . . Avery White Rascal. Wow. I think I noted here before that one of my favorite beer cafes features White Rascal on tap, and it's typically the beer I'll start a session with there (typically ending with Old Rasputin and hitting random points in between). But, as much as I liked teh Rascal, I assumed in a side-by-side comparison Allagash would have scored well above this. In terms of fresh flavor POP, I have to give the night to White Rascal. In terms of the totality of flavor complexity and style nuances going on, it's Hoegarden, but Pierre's baby really did lose out in terms of peak fresh beer explosiveness,

 

And there it is. Not a beer in the bunch I would hesiate to order if I found it in a menu, But I'll move forward with a higher opinion of Averys' white which I've enjoyed for quite a while but did not think could hold its gtound against the other heavy hitters.

 

Maybe the real lesson is that I should not be surprised that Avery is turning out a top notch wit, given the fact that the more I drink their beers the more I like them.

 

 

[G&T]

I suspect I got into mine a little too early. Both were poured into wheat glasses and I drank both over a period of time to get a range of temperatures.

 

Similarly, Allagash beat Witte for me too. The Allagash was surprising. For whatever reason, before putting the two side by side, I associated it with more fruitiness, but I realized that the flavors were essentially the same, but the Allagash was more pronounced. Much more orange, fuller palette, better head retention. As it warmed, the Allagash's bitterness became sweeter while the Witte went flat.

 

 

 

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

Tasting the same lineup and comparing notes is fun, I like this. Time for someone else to pick a style for us to explore. We'll make sure to stick with a couple examples that are widely available and hopefully get a few people interested in playing.