Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Both of you just totally missed my point completely. I'm not comparing the talents of Wise to Quentin. Jesus. QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:27 PM) I stopped reading when I noticed you were comparing Carlos Quentin to DeWayne Wise. Lostfan my short n' quick advice to you would be read a post if yr going to respond to it. With regard to your second point, Quentin takes heat but not in the drawn out 8 month long Wise/BA debate sort of way. Edited October 13, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I read the post. "I stopped reading" was figurative. That was my way of dismissing the entire comparison because I thought it was ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 11:24 AM) It's always a mystery to me how a Carlos Quentin hits .235 and never takes much heat for it on these boards. Most likely because everybody knew that he was playing through a very painful foot injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:32 PM) I read the post. "I stopped reading" was figurative. That was my way of dismissing the entire comparison because I thought it was ridiculous. When did I compare their talents? If you read the post you see that I'm talking about fan reaction and how it seems to target 25th men disproportionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Q had a bum foot the entire year, not to mention he was coming off of a season-ending wrist injury. He never had the time to make a healthy adjustment. Also, his 32 bombs from last year give him the benefit of the doubt. Wheezey had had a decade to prove his worth in the majors, and has failed at every turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 02:33 PM) When did I compare their talents? Probably around the same time I said you compared their talents (I didn't). You're comparing attitudes towards them. Which still doesn't make any sense. People know why Quentin hit .235, and no he hasn't gotten a free pass on it, criticism to him is more about the fact that he can't stay healthy. Discontent towards Wise has to do with the fact that he played waayyyy more than he should. I stopped complaining about it about 4 months ago personally because it was beating a dead horse (hey wait isn't that why I started posting in this thread, not complaining about Wise? Heyooo!) and because Kotsay's arrival kind of negated the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) Q had a bum foot the entire year, not to mention he was coming off of a season-ending wrist injury. He never had the time to make a healthy adjustment. Also, his 32 bombs from last year give him the benefit of the doubt. Wheezey had had a decade to prove his worth in the majors, and has failed at every turn. Oh I definitely agree with the last part of that. But thats part of my point. Because we know he's one of the worst players in the league, why did we spend pages and pages of posts ripping on him all year, booing him on the field. Since everyone's sure about how much pain Quentin was in, we can take him out of the equation. We can insert other sluggers that have an off year. They take heat but for some reason it just doesnt get to the obsession level it did w/ BA/wise But the larger point--instead of booing players, doesnt the fault fall to Ozzie or KW for having him leading off? Instead of posting about how horrible they are, cant we just save ourselves all that typing? He's a defensive player and pinch runner. That's a role. He should be in that role and allowed to do it w/o interference. Stuff like the booing and the northside's "Horry Cow" t-shirts have always been mindblowing to me. If you're rooting for a team, wouldnt you want the players to feel some degree of comfort at the park? As a fan, the very least you can provide is a lack of hostility....b/c the hostility at most does nothing, at worst creates conflict/tension in NFL, fan noise does have a real impact. MLB - not so much. Booing and posting are two different things, but the way things are going, the online components to watching games are informing fans more and more...and informing the trends that go on in the park with fan booing. Edited October 13, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) Discontent towards Wise has to do with the fact that he played waayyyy more than he should. Then we are on the same page. Wise shouldnt receive hate for this. He does not write his name in on the lineup, doesnt place himself as freakin leadoff hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Were people actually booing Wise late in the summer? I really don't recall that happening. The Opening Day booing, why's that being brought up again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 02:42 PM) Then we are on the same page. Wise shouldnt receive hate for this. He does not write his name in on the lineup, doesnt place himself as freakin leadoff hitter. That's why I stopped complaining. It's not Wise's fault that he sucks. I never had a problem with him being here, but if he's going to get hundreds of at-bats, suddenly I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:42 PM) Were people actually booing Wise late in the summer? I really don't recall that happening. The Opening Day booing, why's that being brought up again? b/c it's an example of what i'm talking about. A player is misused by a team, and that player becomes the one who takes the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) b/c it's an example of what i'm talking about. A player is misused by a team, and that player becomes the one who takes the heat. Trust me, Ozzie and Kenny got more heat than Wise did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) b/c it's an example of what i'm talking about. A player is misused by a team, and that player becomes the one who takes the heat. everytime Wise was in a lineup, people would complain "Ozzie doesnt know what he is doing!" "Ozzies f***ing Sunday lineups!" Wise still has to perform when he is put in the game, and he didnt. If you want to divide the boos, whatever. Ozzie catches plenty of heat for his decisionmaking, and Wise caught plenty of heat for not performing. It is what it is, but nobody, NOBODY, gets a free pass on soxtalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Greg I like the way you post. It's cool you remember Wise's moments (small to some not to you). I don't see any harm in what you're saying. All you're saying is you liked him as a 25th man. You're a Sox fan and you happen to like Sox players. They don't have to be a superstar. I don't see why anyone would try to talk you out of liking the guy by siting his stats. You already know he sucks , you're not disputing that. When baseball really was America's game it was not because every fan knew sabremetrics and knew what bad habits players had. It was when the Yankees won a lot of the time and all the fans of other teams had were glimpses, small moments of the season to remember for yet another losing year. Ignorance was bliss. Now everybody is a know-it-all and they think they're better off. But all knowing-it-all means is you have more reasons to cry about the 25th man on a losing baseball team. If it wasn't for people like you the world would be filled with cynics. So go ahead and raise your voice against the howling winds and appreciate the small moments. It's all you really need to be happy. Thank you, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Greg I like the way you post. It's cool you remember Wise's moments (small to some not to you). I don't see any harm in what you're saying. All you're saying is you liked him as a 25th man. You're a Sox fan and you happen to like Sox players. They don't have to be a superstar. I don't see why anyone would try to talk you out of liking the guy by siting his stats. You already know he sucks , you're not disputing that. When baseball really was America's game it was not because every fan knew sabremetrics and knew what bad habits players had. It was when the Yankees won a lot of the time and all the fans of other teams had were glimpses, small moments of the season to remember for yet another losing year. Ignorance was bliss. Now everybody is a know-it-all and they think they're better off. But all knowing-it-all means is you have more reasons to cry about the 25th man on a losing baseball team. If it wasn't for people like you the world would be filled with cynics. So go ahead and raise your voice against the howling winds and appreciate the small moments. It's all you really need to be happy. hahaha did anybody else find this ironic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 12:00 PM) Trust me, Ozzie and Kenny got more heat than Wise did. Except for all of the classy folk who booed Wise mercilessly early in the season. I never understood that. It's not Wise's fault that he was in Chicago, rather than Charlotte. Edited October 13, 2009 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (WCSox @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 02:50 PM) Except for all of the classy folk who booed Wise mercilessly early in the season. I never understood that. It's not Wise's fault that he was in Chicago, rather than Charlotte. Those things are not mutually exclusive. They can boo both Wise and management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) I guess it comes down to how much agency the fans have. Booing may be seen by some as the only immediate way to have an impact as a fan. You want a leadoff hitter taken out of the lineup. You boo in order to expedite that. It gets in the press and puts pressure on the mgmt. Did the fan booing get Ozzie to change his mind faster? My guess is no, and Ozzie would never tell you in person (as honest as he tends to be/seem with the media). But actually, if someone told me they felt it did make the move happen faster...i'd hear em out. I would not throw out that opinion outright, but at present I think it's unlikely. I respect the position that we have to keep our front office in check, but i think it's done more on a year to year basis with attendance figures. Not done really in a game to game manner. Edited October 13, 2009 by Princess Dye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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