One typically wants more range in LF than RF, as more balls are hit there. That's why Quentin's UZR is so much higher in RF (most right fielders are slower than left fielders).

 

I don't understand why somebody who "doesn't know where to throw the ball after making a play" is OK in LF, but a big no-no in RF. If that's your argument, he shouldn't be playing anywhere in the outfield.

I've gone on about this here before, but basically what I'd ideally look for is a RF who can play CF or a CF who can play RF, that way we've always got both options when someone needs a day off.

 

I'm not a fan of Carlos' range anywhere, but at least in left his arm is an asset. In RF he doesn't bring much of anything. Even if he can be average, I want better than that for a change. It would be nice to go into opposing ballparks and catch the ball.

Okay, I don't see the range at all. I don't know or care what UZR says, I don't see that with Carlos. Beyond that, half the time he doesn't even know where he's supposed to throw the ball after making a play. DH would be fine, but I think he's okay in LF. I just do not want that guy in RF at all. And I don't know what UZR says about Ichiro, but the Mariners aren't the only team out there with strong defense in RF.

 

I agree, Carlos has not been great in the OF since he has been here, and LF is easier to play than RF. Also not sure I want a guy with a history of shoulder problems in RF. The UZR stat has to be one of the most worthless in baseball because if you watch the players play, you can tell who is good and who is not, but UZR boosts marginal players to make them look great and makes great defenders look marginal. An OF with CQ in LF Rios in right and signee/tradee/Danks/De Aza in CF would be light years better than what we threw out there last season.

Even if he can be average, I want better than that for a change. It would be nice to go into opposing ballparks and catch the ball.

 

I can't argue with that logic.

 

DeJesus would be a pretty bad fit IMO since he's not really a CF. And for the thousandth time (from me) PLEASE no Quentin in RF.

 

Carlos was pretty damn good in RF with Arizona. I don't know why we shouldn't give him a chance there. Besides, watching him run for balls down the line really sucks with his foot problems. He doesn't have to run as much in RF since there are far less left handed pull hitters than there are right handed pull hitters who hit rockets down the line.

Edited November 6, 200916 yr by chw42

I agree, Carlos has not been great in the OF since he has been here, and LF is easier to play than RF. Also not sure I want a guy with a history of shoulder problems in RF. The UZR stat has to be one of the most worthless in baseball because if you watch the players play, you can tell who is good and who is not, but UZR boosts marginal players to make them look great and makes great defenders look marginal. An OF with CQ in LF Rios in right and signee/tradee/Danks/De Aza in CF would be light years better than what we threw out there last season.

Yeah sabermatricians spent lots of time and effort to make a metric that solely devalues good players and adds value to weak players. Sabermetrics is a serious thing, people aren't just pulling numbers out of their asses, it's all (well the better stuff anyway) meticulously thought over and researched. Your statement here is actually very ignorant, just take a few minutes to look into the framework behind UZR and if you know anything about baseball it will be very apparent to you just how much sense it makes.

 

"if you watch the players play, you can tell who is good and who is not"

This really isn't the case with most people, you may think that you are forming your own opinion on a player by watching them but really you're being heavily influenced by what you hear (it's amazing how many people share the same opinions as the crackpot Hawk Harrelson). Then you have the problems of sample size, let's say you watched 10 Texas Rangers games this year, you wouldn't be in a position to form an accurate opinion on any of their players, you might watch Ian Kinsler go 10-50 in that span with a .200/.250/.325 slash line and 8 errors, would this mean that he was a bad player? No, you would need to defer to his body of work, i.e. the stats.

Yeah sabermatricians spent lots of time and effort to make a metric that solely devalues good players and adds value to weak players. Sabermetrics is a serious thing, people aren't just pulling numbers out of their asses, it's all (well the better stuff anyway) meticulously thought over and researched. Your statement here is actually very ignorant, just take a few minutes to look into the framework behind UZR and if you know anything about baseball it will be very apparent to you just how much sense it makes.

 

"if you watch the players play, you can tell who is good and who is not"

This really isn't the case with most people, you may think that you are forming your own opinion on a player by watching them but really you're being heavily influenced by what you hear (it's amazing how many people share the same opinions as the crackpot Hawk Harrelson). Then you have the problems of sample size, let's say you watched 10 Texas Rangers games this year, you wouldn't be in a position to form an accurate opinion on any of their players, you might watch Ian Kinsler go 10-50 in that span with a .200/.250/.325 slash line and 8 errors, would this mean that he was a bad player? No, you would need to defer to his body of work, i.e. the stats.

 

The issue with the eye-test is exactly what you mentioned. Plus, people tend to go ape-s*** over spectacular plays. A good example is Torii Hunter. Once you make a couple great plays, you are forever a hero to Baseball Tonight Web Gems and people will forever engrave you into the awesome fielders hall of fame.

Olivo, I believe, did have issues with Ozzie.

 

Can't see him walking through that door.

 

Hasn't Crisp been hurt several times in recent years.

 

We have enough issues problems with CQ.

Olivo, I believe, did have issues with Ozzie.

 

Can't see him walking through that door.

 

Hasn't Crisp been hurt several times in recent years.

 

We have enough issues problems with CQ.

 

Crisp sucked with the Royals. He'd be a low risk player with all the injuries he's had. Good glove, good speed, decent bat.

 

He wouldn't cost more than a couple of million with a incentive laden deal I believe.

 

I would love to try to get Kila Ka'aihue, if he can be had. We have zero depth for 1B behind Paulie right now (in the minors I mean), unles Viciedo is a 1B. And having a lefty power bat would be helpful. His AVG dropped last year in AAA, but his other numbers are all pretty good, and I see a lot of potential there.

This.

 

 

I definitely wouldn't mind getting him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cause the Royals are dumb??? I'm sure hes not available, but I can hope, cant I???

 

Are they that dumb? This trade doesn't suggest they are dumb. Chances of Fields/Getz turning into something decent are decent. It's not like Mark Teahen is George Brett. He's a very average baseball player.

I would love to try to get Kila Ka'aihue, if he can be had. We have zero depth for 1B behind Paulie right now (in the minors I mean), unles Viciedo is a 1B. And having a lefty power bat would be helpful. His AVG dropped last year in AAA, but his other numbers are all pretty good, and I see a lot of potential there.

 

 

I want him here solely for the pleasure of listening to Hawk take a crack at pronouncing his name.

Cause the Royals are dumb??? I'm sure hes not available, but I can hope, cant I???

Funny there dumb but they seem to trade us crap players sisco and a few others . why is it we go after Royals players ?

As I said in anothr post I see the Kansas City Royals as the new farm club for the Sox just like the Kansas City Athletics were seen in the 50's and 60's as the farm club of the Yankess

I'd like to wait the Royals out on Alex Gordon. Seems like an ideal buy-low guy if he another bad year under his belt.

Coco > Pods

Why do you think Coco is greater than Pods?

Why do you think Coco is greater than Pods?

 

 

-The two are nearly identical offensively

-Both had and have health issues

-Crisp is a better base runner

-Crisp is three years younger

-Pods is a Chicago fan favorite (not sure if it is to the point that he sells tickets though)

-In '09 Pods had more clutch knocks than a blind grandmother trying to drive a 5Speed

-Coco's name is cooler

-Pod's wife is hotter (I will admit to never seeing Mrs. Crisp)

-Both will demand roughly the same salary in '09

 

And the big one:

-Crisp is the FAR superior defender and the only one capable of playing acceptable everyday major league baseball

 

 

 

The issue with the eye-test is exactly what you mentioned. Plus, people tend to go ape-s*** over spectacular plays. A good example is Torii Hunter. Once you make a couple great plays, you are forever a hero to Baseball Tonight Web Gems and people will forever engrave you into the awesome fielders hall of fame.

 

It's also tough as hell to do the eye-test from watching on TV. You might not see the defender until he is actually in position to make the play, which doesn't tell you anything about how good he is defensively.

-Crisp is the FAR superior defender and the only one capable of playing acceptable everyday major league baseball

 

Good post except for this. Crisp is another outfield hack with a very weak arm.

It's also tough as hell to do the eye-test from watching on TV. You might not see the defender until he is actually in position to make the play, which doesn't tell you anything about how good he is defensively.

Exactly. The other thing is there are certain players who make web gems quite often because they take poor routes to the ball but are still athletic enough to catch the ball if they can get to it. Meanwhile, you've got guys like BA who were so good at getting jumps that they made almost every play look so easy. Brian got to all sorts of balls easily that 90% of other OFers would have had to dive at.

Good post except for this. Crisp is another outfield hack with a very weak arm.

 

Someone bust out the stats because as much as I don't ever watch him play, his wikipedia page he is a superior defender.

 

No clue about his arm. I'm sure he can be had for cheap and would solve the leadoff problem, his bat is just not enough, hell I probably take Pods over Crisp just because of 2005 and my fanboism, and Mrs. Podsednik of course.

Someone bust out the stats because as much as I don't ever watch him play, his wikipedia page he is a superior defender.

 

No clue about his arm. I'm sure he can be had for cheap and would solve the leadoff problem, his bat is just not enough, hell I probably take Pods over Crisp just because of 2005 and my fanboism, and Mrs. Podsednik of course.

Yeah, Crisp is great defensively. His arm is weak. And he hasn't been able to get on base at a high clip in the last few years and he is terribly injury prone.

 

I wouldn't mind picking him up, but he isn't really anything you can count on...

Someone bust out the stats because as much as I don't ever watch him play, his wikipedia page he is a superior defender.

 

No clue about his arm. I'm sure he can be had for cheap and would solve the leadoff problem, his bat is just not enough, hell I probably take Pods over Crisp just because of 2005 and my fanboism, and Mrs. Podsednik of course.

Yeah, Crisp is great defensively. His arm is weak. And he hasn't been able to get on base at a high clip in the last few years and he is terribly injury prone.

 

I wouldn't mind picking him up, but he isn't really anything you can count on...

One typically wants more range in LF than RF, as more balls are hit there. That's why Quentin's UZR is so much higher in RF (most right fielders are slower than left fielders).

 

I don't understand why somebody who "doesn't know where to throw the ball after making a play" is OK in LF, but a big no-no in RF. If that's your argument, he shouldn't be playing anywhere in the outfield.

 

National league putouts...

 

2000- Left - 4768 --- Right - 5425

 

2001- Left - 4719 --- Right - 5225

 

2002- Left - 4765 --- Right - 5135

 

2003- Left - 4756 --- Right - 5206

 

2004- Left - 4616 --- Right - 5201

 

2005- Left - 4823 --- Right - 5235

 

2006- Left - 4927 --- Right - 5280

 

2007- Left - 5016 --- Right - 5473

 

2008- Left - 5473 --- Right - 5283

 

Dating back from 1959 until 2008...

 

Left - 199620 --- Right - 209284

 

American league putouts...

 

2000- Left - 4692 --- Right - 4678

 

2001- Left - 4673 --- Right - 4531

 

2002- Left - 4674 --- Right - 4601

 

2003- Left - 4722 --- Right - 4595

 

2004- Left - 4466 --- Right - 4837

 

2005- Left - 4578 --- Right - 4624

 

2006- Left - 4431 --- Right - 4771

 

2007- Left - 4605 --- Right - 4508

 

2008- Left - 4473 --- Right - 4683

 

Dating back from 195 until 2008...

 

Left - 219785 --- Right - 218861

 

So since 1959, excluding this past season...

 

There have been 419405 putouts in left and 428145 in right.

 

 

Exactly. The other thing is there are certain players who make web gems quite often because they take poor routes to the ball but are still athletic enough to catch the ball if they can get to it. Meanwhile, you've got guys like BA who were so good at getting jumps that they made almost every play look so easy. Brian got to all sorts of balls easily that 90% of other OFers would have had to dive at.

 

I truly believe due to our other options in center during anderson's tenure being so bad that anderson just looked drastically better that he really is to white sox fans in general. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid defender, but he is not a stud. If he were that good, and is that good, teams would bite the bullet offensively, while he should more than make up for it defensively. Overall, defensively, anderson is slightly above average.

Edited November 9, 200916 yr by qwerty

I truly believe due to our other options in center during anderson's tenure being so bad that anderson just looked drastically better that he really is to white sox fans in general. Don't get me wrong, he is a solid defender, but he is not a stud. If he were that good, and is that good, teams would bite the bullet offensively, while he should more than make up for it defensively. Overall, defensively, anderson is slightly above average.

I agree, I always felt he was overrated (by Sox fans only). He's certainly no Franklin Gutierrez.