ESPN BBTN Says Wave the Red Flag

[DaveBrown85]

Wasn't Dave Brown the former QB of the NY Giants?

 

Any connection with the name?

Nope no connection with the name. Maybe he could come in and pitch the 5th spot though.

[Leonard Zelig]

I agree, we should not get worked up about us not being part of the real team. We are fans and have some input into the revenue but not much else. Definitely not worth spitting up blood in a thread.

 

Who do you mean by "we"?

[knightni]

Who do you mean by "we"?

[kitekrazy]

ahh, great. Once in our existence and none with any semblance of our current group of players. Reassuring. but kenny can just see what the problem is and readjust midway through! That's a great idea! these games don't matter!

 

 

I don't think that's possible. All it will be is a band aid to keep from going bad to extremely bad. Mid season trades seem to help teams who are still in it like first place in it. I don't think a guy like Gonzalez would put this team over the top unless they are in first place or a half game out.

 

I'm not sure he can pull off a Peavy like deal where it will cost you someone not currently contributing. Gonzalez may cost them good pitching. Then you have to weigh the costs of that.

[chisoxfan09]

Tim Dierkes from MLBTR speculating on what could happen if the Sox were to be really out of it this summer and hold a firesale:

 

Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/if-t...me-sellers.html

 

I don't see any of this happening and I think MLBTR is an ok site with rumors but flame away!!!

 

 

[EvilJester99]

Tim Dierkes from MLBTR speculating on what could happen if the Sox were to be really out of it this summer and hold a firesale:

 

Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/if-t...me-sellers.html

 

I don't see any of this happening and I think MLBTR is an ok site with rumors but flame away!!!

Hell this keeps up the Sox will be out of it by the end of May....

[ThunderBolt]

I'm not hoping for us to tank, but i can't lie that I am slightly interested in seeing what kind of haul KW could fetch in a firesale.

[witesoxfan]

I'm not hoping for us to tank, but i can't lie that I am slightly interested in seeing what kind of haul KW could fetch in a firesale.

 

Kenny is not great at selling and I imagine it's because he just generally doesn't like to do it. The only true time I ever remember him selling someone well was Garcia. He "sold" McCarthy, who still had like 5 years of service left after being dealt, so that's not really in the firesale mode at all, but rather capitalizing on the value of someone who he didn't think was nearly that good. But looking at a lot of others...he just doesn't do it well. 2007 was a perfect time to sell off some pieces, and rather than trade them (guys like Pierzynski, Dye, Buehrle) he not only kept them throughout the remainder of the season, but actually resigned them. The guys he did trade, Mackowiak and Iguchi, he got jacks*** for them (Link and Dubee). He sold a few very highly valued minor league pieces for Swisher, and, in return, got back Betemit, Marquez, and Nunez, none of whom have done a whole hell of a lot with the Sox. The Vazquez return looks good at this point, but only time will tell.

 

If this team gets blown up and a fire sale occurs, I want it to be someone other than Kenny doing it.

[chisoxfan09]

Kenny is not great at selling and I imagine it's because he just generally doesn't like to do it. The only true time I ever remember him selling someone well was Garcia. He "sold" McCarthy, who still had like 5 years of service left after being dealt, so that's not really in the firesale mode at all, but rather capitalizing on the value of someone who he didn't think was nearly that good. But looking at a lot of others...he just doesn't do it well. 2007 was a perfect time to sell off some pieces, and rather than trade them (guys like Pierzynski, Dye, Buehrle) he not only kept them throughout the remainder of the season, but actually resigned them. The guys he did trade, Mackowiak and Iguchi, he got jacks*** for them (Link and Dubee). He sold a few very highly valued minor league pieces for Swisher, and, in return, got back Betemit, Marquez, and Nunez, none of whom have done a whole hell of a lot with the Sox. The Vazquez return looks good at this point, but only time will tell.

 

If this team gets blown up and a fire sale occurs, I want it to be someone other than Kenny doing it.

 

Yeah I agree that a firesale depends on what kind of value you get back for the items on sale. But it is a bit early to tell. If we continue to skid though we will be in a very difficult position by even mid May. Sometimes these things are also confidence and I definitely see days where this is 0 confidence out on the field. I am not sure why some days they just refuse to show up.

[caulfield12]

Then you go back earlier, when we had a mini-sale:

 

Ray Durham for Jon Adkins fiasco...one of his five worst moves of all-time

James Baldwin for not a whole lot in return

Kenny Lofton for Felix Diaz, of the reported mid 90's heat that turned out to be 89-91, just like Adkins, another "fireballer"

Howry for Frank Francisco and that Korean dude, you have to give him credit for unearthing that gem, although we quickly repackaged him for Everett

 

By the way, that other Korean or Taiwanese pitcher we signed about 4-5 years ago, that was pretty much a disaster, wasn't it?

 

July 25, 2002: Ray Durham was traded by the Chicago White Sox with cash to the Oakland Athletics for Jon Adkins.[4]

July 28, 2002: Kenny Lofton was traded by the Chicago White Sox to the San Francisco Giants for Felix Diaz and Ryan Meaux (minors).

July 29, 2002: Sandy Alomar, Jr. was traded by the Chicago White Sox to the Colorado Rockies for the unforgettable vowel-laden Enemencio Pacheco (minors).[5]

[caulfield12]

Tim Dierkes from MLBTR speculating on what could happen if the Sox were to be really out of it this summer and hold a firesale:

 

Link: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/if-t...me-sellers.html

 

I don't see any of this happening and I think MLBTR is an ok site with rumors but flame away!!!

 

The names you don't see popping up yet but would be interesting:

 

Buehrle, Peavy, Rios, and, to a much lesser extent advisable...Danks

[Balta1701]

The names you don't see popping up yet but would be interesting:

 

Buehrle, Peavy, Rios, and, to a much lesser extent advisable...Danks

KW would have to resign after trading MB.

[PeavyTime]

Is anyone else still confused as to what a "red flag" is?

[caulfield12]

I think the only way to "sell" trading Buehrle would be the Cardinals angle...that it was his lifelong dream to go there, proximity to his family, etc.

 

It would really suck, though. He's one of those guys you'd love to see play his entire career with one team...and he might just walk away. Let's say we weren't in it next year, there'd be a tremendous amount of pressure on KW to deal him to a contending team for 2-4 months...any of the Top 10-12 teams in baseball would absolutely love to have a WS-experienced veteran like that in a stretch drive.

 

As I said, I don't foresee it happening, but then it really seemed possible that many of the veterans would be gone in 2007 and he held onto all the pieces, which worked out brilliantly in 2008.

Edited April 20, 2010 by caulfield12

[FlaSoxxJim]

I'm guessing that was also the last time they had a good second half. In the last decade, I can't remember the Sox having a strong 2nd half.

 

2000 may have been the last time.

[G&T]

2000 may have been the last time.

 

No that was a bad 2nd half. Only 5 games over. They walked away with the division, but that was the year they clinched in the same game that the Twins hit a walk off homer. That was a weird celebration.

 

Interestingly, though, that 2000 team went 20-7 in June and 17-8 in April. They were a pedestrian team the rest of the season.

Edited April 20, 2010 by G&T

[witesoxfan]

I seem to recall teams under Manuel being relatively strong in the second half, and specifically the 2003 team. That team collapsed in September, but they were like 3-4 games under .500 and 7 games back at the ASB and ended up winning 86 games.

 

I don't really recall any single Ozzie led team being strong in the second half of the season.

[southsider2k5]

The names you don't see popping up yet but would be interesting:

 

Buehrle, Peavy, Rios, and, to a much lesser extent advisable...Danks

 

Danks might actually be the first SP dealt because he is the only one without a long term contract plus a high value.

[WCSox]

KW would have to resign after trading MB.

 

He didn't have to resign after his public feud with Frank, or after he replaced Frank with Thome. Ron Schueler didn't have to resign after letting Robin Ventura walk either.

 

[WCSox]

Danks might actually be the first SP dealt because he is the only one without a long term contract plus a high value.

 

Agreed. I get the feeling that he wants to test the market when he hits FA, anyway.

 

[SoxAce]

Danks might actually be the first SP dealt because he is the only one without a long term contract plus a high value.

 

I just don't see KW trading a 25 year old LH starting pitcher with 3-4 years of arb. left in any case. At least.. not this year. A guy like Quentin would probably go before Danks. Whats good about some of these guys is that KW doesn't have to go on full rebuild and he can focus on other pieces. Flowers, Danks, Hudson etc.. will be ready. It'll be up to them though to hit (and pitch) well up here.

Edited April 20, 2010 by SoxAce

[chisoxfan09]

I just don't see KW trading a 25 year old LH starting pitcher with 3-4 years of arb. left in any case. At least.. not this year. A guy like Quentin would probably go before Danks. Whats good about some of these guys is that KW doesn't have to go on full rebuild and he can focus on other pieces. Flowers, Danks, Hudson etc.. will be ready. It'll be up to them though to hit (and pitch) well up here.

 

I can actually see a lot of people calling for Ozzie's head if the club is having a dismal first 2 months and we are way out of it by June. We should know by then to what extent his DH experiment will have failed miserably or not.

[southsider2k5]

I just don't see KW trading a 25 year old LH starting pitcher with 3-4 years of arb. left in any case. At least.. not this year. A guy like Quentin would probably go before Danks. Whats good about some of these guys is that KW doesn't have to go on full rebuild and he can focus on other pieces. Flowers, Danks, Hudson etc.. will be ready. It'll be up to them though to hit (and pitch) well up here.

 

I think he is down to two years of arb left. My thinking is that if he feels he can't get something done with John long term, which Danks has repeatedly turned down if you believe the reports, and we fall out of the race, there might not be a piece that gets a bigger haul than Danks. If Kenny wants to rebuild on the fly, a guy like Johnny being traded could do it.

[chisoxfan09]

I think he is down to two years of arb left. My thinking is that if he feels he can't get something done with John long term, which Danks has repeatedly turned down if you believe the reports, and we fall out of the race, there might not be a piece that gets a bigger haul than Danks. If Kenny wants to rebuild on the fly, a guy like Johnny being traded could do it.

 

Just curious SS2K5, what kind of haul would you ask for Danks? Another pitcher? A good bat?

[southsider2k5]

Just curious SS2K5, what kind of haul would you ask for Danks? Another pitcher? A good bat?

 

Something close to what Cleveland got for Sabathia. He might not be that good, but you would have him for two plus seasons. There would have to be a teams top prospect, (a can't miss kind of guy in the deal), plus some high end pitching potential, along with some other B to C prospects.