Does the recent success of Ely and Gio Gonzalez

[caulfield12]

 

make KW and our farm system look any better in your eyes, or do you subscribe to the theory that the NL really is THAT weak?

 

You can also use Clayton Richard, Jon Garland and Jose Contreras to further this argument.

 

Could either Ely or Gio be pitching close to this well with the White Sox, in your opinion?

[knightni]

David Aardsma, Nick Masset...

[caulfield12]

MacDougal was decent last year for stretches with the Nationals.

 

Rauch basically "found himself" as a pitcher in the NL, same with Majewski. Even Charlie Haeger still has a pulse in the NL.

 

What next, Arnie Munoz, Josh Stewart and Mike Porzio comebacks?

[Jordan4life_2007]

make KW and our farm system look any better in your eyes, or do you subscribe to the theory that the NL really is THAT weak?

 

You can also use Clayton Richard, Jon Garland and Jose Contreras to further this argument.

 

Could either Ely or Gio be pitching close to this well with the White Sox, in your opinion?

 

The NL is that weak. But it's still too early to tell definitively at this point. Ely's got a handful of starts. Gio's stuff has never really been in question. The BB rate is what's held him back. Richard at his absolute max is a 4th starter in either league. Garland is a total bi-product of the NL west. Jose is flourishing now that he's a set-up man/closer. He wouldn't be pitching like this as a starter. I think you have to wait for guys like Chris Carter, Brandon Allen and Aaron Poreda to establish themselves, good or bad, before any type of views about the farm could change.

[knightni]

Let's face it...

 

Fire Don Cooper.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I am not ready to start proclaiming yet. Remember these names... Kip Wells and Josh Fogg.

[JPN366]

I met them both and watched both pitch, I wouldn't have traded either one. Best pitchers in the Southern League in 2007 and 2009 respectively. Off the charts character. All you have to show for them is Juan Pierre since Nick Swisher was traded.

[Quin]

Gio is in the AL...

[caulfield12]

There's DeLosSantos and Dexter Carter out there too...

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Realistically, the only deal that bothers me is the one with Ely.

 

Firstly, no team could acquire Jake Peavy without giving up some talent. So, at the time, this was a pretty fair deal. We don't know how it will turn out but I don't think the Sox gave up too much in this deal. It was always likely that Richard could have more success in the NL.

 

Gio, I would like to have kept. But, once again they couldn't get Swisher without giving up some talent and it's taken him a couple of years to start acheiving his success. This part of the deal wasn't too bad for the Sox. It was the return they got on Swisher when they decided they had to dump him for whatever they could get in the next 5 minutes or whatever it was that happend that resulted in them accepting the Yankees scraps for him.

 

I am pissed about the Pierre deal, even though he is playing much better, because I highly doubt that there was any other team out there willing to pay $ 9 mil. for two years of Pierre's contract - let alone throw in two decent pitching prospects.

 

And, Ely may not become anything special but he did just beat the Tigers (an AL Central rival) and did the Sox really need to include him in the deal?

Edited May 23, 2010 by WHITESOXRANDY

[southsider2k5]

Realistically, the only deal that bothers me is the one with Ely.

 

Firstly, no team could acquire Jake Peavy without giving up some talent. So, at the time, this was a pretty fair deal. We don't know how it will turn out but I don't think the Sox gave up too much in this deal. It was always likely that Richard could have more success in the NL.

 

Gio, I would like to have kept. But, once again they couldn't get Swisher without giving up some talent and it's taken him a couple of years to start acheiving his success. This part of the deal wasn't too bad for the Sox. It was the return they got on Swisher when they decided they had to dump him for whatever they could get in the next 5 minutes or whatever it was that happend that resulted in them accepting the Yankees scraps for him.

 

I am pissed about the Pierre deal, even though he is playing much better, because I highly doubt that there was any other team out there willing to pay $ 9 mil. for two years of Pierre's contract - let alone throw in two decent pitching prospects.

 

And, Ely may not become anything special but he did just beat the Tigers (an AL Central rival) and did the Sox really need to include him in the deal?

 

Compare the packages that got Sabathia and Peavy. We got Peavy without giving up a big time prospect. Guys might develop into something, but there wasn't even a top 50 guy in the bunch.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

Agreed.

[BearSox]

Both the Pierre and Swisher trades were god awful. You don't trade good prospects, especially pitchers (Gio, DLS, Ely), for mediocre position players.

[Ozzie Ball]

Both the Pierre and Swisher trades were god awful. You don't trade good prospects, especially pitchers (Gio, DLS, Ely), for mediocre position players.

Swisher's not mediocre.

[maggsmaggs]

Ely would be hammered in the AL, just my gut instinct.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I'm not saying that we could use Ely in the rotation now and that he'd be a good longtime starter in the AL. I'm saying that he's a pretty good young pitcher to have around. Have you seen the useless crap that we have downin Charlotte right now? And, I'm pretty sure that if Kenny said no to shipping Ely to the Dodgers, we'd still have Juan Pierre and his 6 RBI's in LF.

Edited May 24, 2010 by WHITESOXRANDY

[BearSox]

Swisher's not mediocre.

Right now, he isn't. But thats thanks to a new and much improved batting stance and approach he learned away from the White Sox. But the guy we traded for was mediocre, maybe above. I'm sorry, but a .250 hitter who hits only 20-30 homers, knocks in less than 100, strikeout over 130 times, and plays mediocre D... In my eyes, that's nothing special. Solid, probably better than mediocre, yeah. But you don't trade 3 very good prospects for that.

 

If Swisher keeps up what he's doing now, sure. But there's no guarantee he keeps up what he's been doing throughout the course of thise season all year, as he has always been a streaky hitter as well.

 

Would I take Swisher in LF and bat him in a 5-7 spot, hell yeah. But would I trade Ryan Sweeney, Gio Gonzalez, and Fautino De Los Santos for that? Hell freaking No!

[BearSox]

Ely would be hammered in the AL, just my gut instinct.

I don't know about that. I don't think he's ever gonna be a world beater, but I think he can be a very solid pitcher in the MLB for many years. He lacks the stuff to be great, but has a very good change and amazing command that should allow him to be a solid 4 or 5 for many years. And who knows, maybe better than that.

[bighurt4life]

Don't forget about Dexter Carter and Aaron Poreda who were two of the three main components of the Peavy trade. Carter has been getting lit up in high a and Poreda has been moved exclusively to relief in AAA and though he has a low ERA his peripherals are very poor, especially his bb ratio of almost 9/9. So basically we gave up a mid rotation starter in Richard for Jake Peavy, i'll make that trade any day of the week.

I doubt that Carter will ever make it to the bigs and who knows what's going to happen with Poreda. His calling card out of college was a big time sinker that he could control very well but he's seemingly forgot how to do that. He'll be in the majors probably this season but i just don't see him doing a whole lot at this stage.

[Balta1701]

According to Kurkjian, Ely had a streak of something like 84 consecutive batters faced without a walk.

[Harry Chappas]

How is Russell doing?

[Balta1701]

How is Russell doing?

3-1 record, 3.65 ERA, 1.95 WHIP in San Diego's bullpen this season. Hasn't given up a HR, 11 BB, 14 K in 12.1 innings.

[knightni]

I wish the Sox had more guys who "only" hit 20-30 HRs and had just under 100 RBI.

[Balta1701]

I wish the Sox had more guys who "only" hit 20-30 HRs and had just under 100 RBI.

I wish Nick Swisher would have had those RBI numbers when he was in Chicago.

[Ozzie Ball]

I wish Nick Swisher would have had those RBI numbers when he was in Chicago.

You say it like he was with the Sox for 5+ years and never produced. He had one down season. It happens. The Sox would be a much better offense with Nick Swisher a part of it right now.