lasttriptotulsa Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 I personally think of "best hitter" as the most complete. In this case I think Konerko. My lineup would have Konerko 3 and Dunn 4. If its the other way around, Konerko might set the record for GIDP as much as Dunn will be on. Dunn doesn't ground into nearly as many DP's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:48 PM) But in both cases we can agree that the 'run producer' hits 4th and guy with the best average hits 3rd. I think it ultimately comes down to OPS and wOBA, as those have better correlation to runs scored than batting average or whatever you might use to measure runs produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:47 PM) You don't need high averages to win games...you need runs. Let's ask it this way, hypothetically, let's say Beckham comes out and gives a .900-ish OPS while hitting .310, similar to what he did in the 2nd half last year except with a bit more power. On the other hand, Dunn gives you a .900 OPS with 42 home runs, but hits .245 and strikes out 190 times, with the slugging and walks making up for the low average. Which guy would you want where? I've qualified with similar OPS values between the 2 guys, so now we're talking roughly similar runs between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:49 PM) I personally think of "best hitter" as the most complete. In this case I think Konerko. My lineup would have Konerko 3 and Dunn 4. If its the other way around, Konerko might set the record for GIDP as much as Dunn will be on. Dunn doesn't ground into nearly as many DP's. But it was a damn good post Welcome aboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:50 PM) I think it ultimately comes down to OPS and wOBA, as those have better correlation to runs scored than batting average or whatever you might use to measure runs produced. I'm sure Ozzie will carefully examine those particular stats while completing his lineup card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 08:50 PM) Let's ask it this way, hypothetically, let's say Beckham comes out and gives a .900-ish OPS while hitting .310, similar to what he did in the 2nd half last year except with a bit more power. On the other hand, Dunn gives you a .900 OPS with 42 home runs, but hits .245 and strikes out 190 times, with the slugging and walks making up for the low average. Which guy would you want where? I've qualified with similar OPS values between the 2 guys, so now we're talking roughly similar runs between them. You put the high OBP guy in front of the high SLG guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:50 PM) I'm sure Ozzie will carefully examine those particular stats while completing his lineup card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:51 PM) You put the high OBP guy in front of the high SLG guy. Beckham's OBP in the 2nd half last year was .380, Dunn's OBP in his career is .381. So, the difference I'm giving you is that one guy is walks and HR's, one guy is more well rounded, singles, doubles, and HR, fewer walks though, but similar OBP values and similar slugging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:50 PM) I'm sure Ozzie will carefully examine those particular stats while completing his lineup card. He already has since he's gonna bat Rios 4th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunk23 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 07:53 PM) Beckham's OBP in the 2nd half last year was .380, Dunn's OBP in his career is .381. So, the difference I'm giving you is that one guy is walks and HR's, one guy is more well rounded, singles, doubles, and HR, fewer walks though, but similar OBP values and similar slugging. Well then you put Beckham in front of Dunn. Based on probability, you want the lineup to be a simple descending order of OBP. Of course it's never that simple, but hey, that's just the math of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (chunk23 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:54 PM) Well then you put Beckham in front of Dunn. Based on probability, you want the lineup to be a simple descending order of OBP. Of course it's never that simple, but hey, that's just the math of it. So Dunn leads off? Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:50 PM) I'm sure Ozzie will carefully examine those particular stats while completing his lineup card. Of course he will. His ideal lineup with our current roster would be something like... 1) Pierre 2) Lillebridge 3) Teahen 4) Vizquel 5) Teahen 6) Teahen 7) Teahen 8) Vizquel 9) Pierre Bench 1) Konerko 2) Dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Sox Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:53 PM) He already has since he's gonna bat Rios 4th! Yeah Rios 4th is just silly. Batting him 5th makes some sense, as I believe the 5-hole guy is the most common hitter leading off the second. But even then...Rios isn't exactly an OBP machine. I think I'd go with this Pierre Beckham Dunn Konerko Quentin Rios Pierzysnki Ramirez Morel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) So Dunn leads off? Problem solved. sabermetrically yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Just for fun, my ideal lineup would be: Pierre Beckham Dunn Konerko Rios Quentin Ramirez AJP Morel QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 01:49 PM) I personally think of "best hitter" as the most complete. In this case I think Konerko. My lineup would have Konerko 3 and Dunn 4. If its the other way around, Konerko might set the record for GIDP as much as Dunn will be on. Dunn doesn't ground into nearly as many DP's. Welcome to the Board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 (edited) I have feeling you will see Alexei batting 2nd, and Beckham batting 8th, barring a miraculous spring by Gordon. Edited December 6, 2010 by justBLAZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 These lineups you are all posting will never happen. Neither of you made room for Teahen or Lillebridge...both who will play a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:58 PM) I have feeling you will see Alexei batting 2nd, and Beckham batting 8th, pending a miraculous spring by Gordon. I have a feeling neither of them will bat 2nd out of the spring, because Alexei has that usual April swoon and they probably want to be a little more cautious with Beckham's brain this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 07:57 PM) Just for fun, my ideal lineup would be: Pierre Beckham Dunn Konerko Rios Quentin Ramirez AJP Morel I'd go.. Pierre Beckham Konerko Dunn Rios Quentin AJP Ramirez Morel I just love the 3-6. That's the "danger zone" right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Sox players I've spoken to are still hearing that PK deal will happen. It better happen soon, because KW now has a Plan B in case. - Cowley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 It really is somewhat remarkable how switching out the name of "Kotsay" and replacing it with "Dunn" changes the entire complexion of our line-up, no matter where you bat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank_Thomas Posted December 6, 2010 Author Share Posted December 6, 2010 Things are heating up wonder who plan B is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 02:03 PM) Things are heating up wonder who plan B is? Greg Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 So White Sox were to meet with Landis at 11 and there hasn't been any info about that meeting... I hope they are busy figuring out details and are soon to announce the Paul Konerko/J.J Putz signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Sox Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 6, 2010 -> 03:01 PM) Sox players I've spoken to are still hearing that PK deal will happen. It better happen soon, because KW now has a Plan B in case. - Cowley Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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