Okay, let me preface this topic by saying I don't actually think he should be in the HOF, I think he falls into that just-short category. But after looking at his numbers a little closer, he certainly needs to be in the discussion. And you really never hear his name associated with the HOF, but if people are clamoring for Johnny Damon to be in the Hall of Fame (which I have heard on ESPN recently). Robin certainly deserves to be in that conversation, too. Take a look at these statistics:

 

WAR (rank among ML 3rd basemen)

1991: 4th

1992: 2nd

1993: 2nd

1994: 5th

1995: 2nd

1996: 4th

1997: Injured all year (only played 56 games)

1998: 4th

1999: 1st (first season with Mets) -- after 1999, his numbers are up and down.

 

These rankings are with guys like Sheffield and Thome at third base when really those guys were poor fielders. So Robin was arguably the best third baseman in baseball during the 1990s. Not only was he a terrific hitter, but he was the top fielder in his era at third base and never was associated with steroids. He ranks 21st all-time in WAR as a third baseman. He ranks third in 90-plus RBI seasons from a third baseman and 10th in slugging all-time as a third baseman. Fielding-wise, he is fourth all-time in Gold Gloves by a third baseman.

 

If Johnny Damon and his 45.4 WAR is being mentioned as a HOF player, then Robin with his 61.2 WAR should be too. My premise is that the HOF should be based on position relatively and not on just total statistics. Obviously, his career statistics are not overly impressive, but when compared to others at his position, they become quite impressive.

 

Thoughts? I was watching the College World Series just now and Robin is broadcasting, so it really just hit me to look up his career statistics. As a result, I was quite surprised by how prolific a career he had despite a horrific ankle/leg injury in 1997. I guess during his prime, I was too young to fully appreciate him.

Edited June 19, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

mr clutch

Johnny Damon is clearly not a hall of fame player.

Johnny Damon is clearly not a hall of fame player.

I don't disagree at all. He has been named to two All-Star games, but my point is if people are saying Damon is a HOF-caliber player, then Ventura should be talked about just as much, if not more. And overall, Robin's numbers should put him in the conversation since he was one of the era's best third basemen.

Edited June 19, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

I don't disagree at all. He has been named to two All-Star games, but my point is if people are saying Damon is a HOF-caliber player, then Ventura should be talked about just as much, if not more.

And my point is...if people are saying that about Johnny Damon...that makes them wrong.

 

Similarly, if people are saying Robin Ventura is a hall of famer, that also makes them wrong.

Third Base in general is kind of an awkward place HOF wise. The defensive difficulty of the position is underestimated so voters expect too much offensively. I'd say Ventura is definitely a fringe HOFer IMO.

I loved robin, but he's no hall of famer

2 time all-star, 6 gold gloves. He had a great career but I just don't see how he can be a Hall of Famer. He's south of 300 homers and 2000 hits even. One of my favorite players ever so he'll be a Hall of Famer to me, but not a Cooperstown Hall of Famer.

Agree 100%, I loved robin even wore 23 on my unis but he ain't a hall oif famer

Agree 100%, I loved robin even wore 23 on my unis but he ain't a hall oif famer

Hell, the team hasn't even retired his #.

Hell, the team hasn't even retired his #.

 

And Jermaine Dye did a pretty good job with it getting the World Series MVP and all.

And Jermaine Dye did a pretty good job with it getting the World Series MVP and all.

Best # in the city.

I see the reasoning for the thread, but he's obviously not a hall of famer. He is the most deserving of anyone from the Sox during that time frame next to Thomas.

I remember a few things about Robin. First, his terrible start -- can't remember the stat, but I think he was 0 for 20 something. I saw the hit that snapped it, a single up the middle that had eyes. After that he was fine. I can't remember the details of his beef with Mgr. Bevington, and he certainly wanted out of Chicago, which I never did understand. His last year with Sox was 1998, the year of the White Flag trade with Giants. There were rumors that Robin was also to be traded, but the media and fans were loudly against that. He stayed, then left via free agency. Lots of big home runs, and he has that college record for consecutive games with a hit. Not up to standard of Brooks and Schmidt for HOF consideration. I would expect Santo would go before Robin.

At the time of his retirement, I'm pretty sure he was third all time in grand slams. For a guy that wasn't really a power hitter, that just shows you how "clutch" he was. I use parentheses because I usually dislike that term, but Ventura is a guy that seriously was clutch.

When he joined Sox, Walt Hnirak (spelling??) was hitting coach, and he changed Robin's swing. I never was convinced this was called for -- Robin had such a great, natural swing. Top hand would come off all the time. I'm interested to see what some of you guys think about that.

Best # in the city.

 

Ryne Sandberg and Devin Hester say hi!

 

Plus the obvious, J.P. Bordeleau.

I remember a few things about Robin. First, his terrible start -- can't remember the stat, but I think he was 0 for 20 something. I saw the hit that snapped it, a single up the middle that had eyes. After that he was fine. I can't remember the details of his beef with Mgr. Bevington, and he certainly wanted out of Chicago, which I never did understand. His last year with Sox was 1998, the year of the White Flag trade with Giants. There were rumors that Robin was also to be traded, but the media and fans were loudly against that. He stayed, then left via free agency. Lots of big home runs, and he has that college record for consecutive games with a hit. Not up to standard of Brooks and Schmidt for HOF consideration. I would expect Santo would go before Robin.

 

0 for 43

 

White flag deal was in 1997

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by JoshPR

Ryne Sandberg and Devin Hester say hi!

 

Plus the obvious, J.P. Bordeleau.

 

Shaun Gayle

I was Robins biggest fan growing up. His 23 was the first jersey I ever bought. I still have the thing. All of that being said, he isn't a Hall of Famer.

.305 BA 1532 R 2552 H 443 HR 1531 RBI 148 SB .938 OPS - 18 seasons

 

.267 BA 1006 R 1885 H 294 HR 1182 RBI 24 SB .806 OPS - 16 seasons

 

Player A is more likely a HOF than player B.

 

 

 

 

.305 BA 1532 R 2552 H 443 HR 1531 RBI 148 SB .938 OPS - 18 seasons

 

.267 BA 1006 R 1885 H 294 HR 1182 RBI 24 SB .806 OPS - 16 seasons

 

Player A is more likely a HOF than player B.

 

Position and quality of defense matter...

Position and quality of defense matter...

A is definitely Chipper, but like I said in my post, I don't think Robin is actually a HOF, but he is much closer than people give him credit for.

 

 

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

When he joined Sox, Walt Hnirak (spelling??) was hitting coach, and he changed Robin's swing. I never was convinced this was called for -- Robin had such a great, natural swing. Top hand would come off all the time. I'm interested to see what some of you guys think about that.

Hriniak. I have no idea how he changed Robin but Robin had a nice career so can't argue with the results. Hriniak built his reputation with the Red Sox and Ted Williams criticized his methods saying it robbed hitters of power. Frank Thomas trusted Hriniak and always turned to him when he hit a funk.

A is definitely Chipper, but like I said in my post, I don't think Robin is actually a HOF, but he is much closer than people give him credit for.

Chipper is almost twice the player that Ventura was.

 

1 MVP 6 AS 210 errors at 3B

 

2 AS 6 GG 220 errors at 3B