I find that really hard to see...unless they let Oswalt walk without picking up his option.

 

Oswalt's not returning from everything I've heard.

Not to mention Hamels is about to get PAID after next season.

If they let Oswalt walk, then they can probably do it, Mark would earn less than Oswalt's $14 million anyway. They do need to figure out what to do with Rollins this offseason. The big one they clear is Ibanez's salary, but Cliff Lee's deal balloons by $10 million next year

Baseball has ALWAYS been a game of stats, always. The criteria for induction into the Hall of Fame has always been stats. There might be a few exceptions, but that's how it's always been. You're confusing "the game" with the Hall of Fame.

 

There are plenty of guys who are in the HOF without the gawdy stats, but because of their contributions in other ways. A guy like Ozzie Smith comes to mind right away.

There are plenty of guys who are in the HOF without the gawdy stats, but because of their contributions in other ways. A guy like Ozzie Smith comes to mind right away.

He's there because of defense.

There are plenty of guys who are in the HOF without the gawdy stats, but because of their contributions in other ways. A guy like Ozzie Smith comes to mind right away.

 

He is on the list of all-time great defensive players. I never said it's just about the stats, it's about the best at playing the game of baseball.

There are plenty of guys who are in the HOF without the gawdy stats, but because of their contributions in other ways. A guy like Ozzie Smith comes to mind right away.

 

Exactly what the other two said. And as I mentioned, I'm sure there are a few exceptions.

There are plenty of guys who are in the HOF without the gawdy stats, but because of their contributions in other ways. A guy like Ozzie Smith comes to mind right away.

 

Ozzie Smith revolutionized the SS position, though. Before Ozzie, it wasn't nearly as critical to have an above average defender manning said position.

I hope Mark Buerhle is back for another couple seasons. But, what is the thinking of everyone else? Pitching is the name of the game and I am afraid we haven't seen a lot of consistency on the part of our young hurlers. Not to say they might not have afuture but we could be going through a couple rough years waiting for them to mature at the big league level. Rumorts abound about MB being allowed to walk, tradfing Floyd and/or Danks, trading Matt Thornton, etc. Of course it doesn't help that our farm system was raped either.

Ozzie Smith revolutionized the SS position, though. Before Ozzie, it wasn't nearly as critical to have an above average defender manning said position.

 

 

Defense up the middle (including CF) was always a major plus and a teams consideration while the corner positions were more power hitters and less good defenders don't you think?

Edited September 23, 201114 yr by elrockinMT

Nope, not yet. I'm not saying goodbye to my favorite player until it's official. (Boohoo) haha.

He is on the list of all-time great defensive players. I never said it's just about the stats, it's about the best at playing the game of baseball.

 

And that doesn't always show up in the stats.

Defense up the middle (including CF) was always a major plus and a teams consideration while the corner positions were more power hitters and less good defenders don't you think?

 

Um, no it wasn't. You don't know what you're talking about.

You keep saying this without any sound reasoning behind it.

 

Next year's Cardinals rotation:

 

Adam Wainwright: $9 million

Chris Carpenter: $11 million

Kyle Lohse: $12 millon

Jake Westbrook: $8.5 million

Jaime Garcia: arbitration eligible

 

They've got two of the top pitching prospects in the game in Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez (with the former being nearly big-league-ready).

 

Lance Berkam was just re-upped for 1 year, $12 million. They've got a club option on Yadier Molina (he's going to get a nice raise). Then, of course, they have a 1B to worry about that's going to command upwards of $30 million a year. Suffice it to say, Mark Buehrle is nowhere near a priority for them at this point.

 

Thank you! I get tired of the silliness of him being a Cardinal because he is a fan. Any athlete with half a brain is a fan of a team that pays them the most until the nest team pays him more.

Edited September 24, 201114 yr by kitekrazy

Personally, I think Mark Buehrle's resume is stacked enough to warrant HoF.

 

The IP thing is impressive. The perfect game and no hitter are impressive and memorable. The two GGs are impressive. But those things don't make you HoF worthy. Not without some greater statistical backing that he doesn't have.

 

He never won 20 games. He never led the league in anything significant other than IP, and he only did that twice. The highest he's ever gotten in CY voting is 5th (it was the only time he even got votes). His career ERA is 3.84 (the highest ERA in the Hall currently is that of Red Ruffing at 3.80; Red won 114 more games than Mark and had the advantage of being a Yankee...also, I think most view Ruffing as one of the weaker HoF pitchers). He hasn't won 200 games (and it's starting to look like he'll barely get there, if at all).

 

And then look at the much better pitchers who still aren't enshrined. Jack Morris, Milt Pappas, Mickey Lolich, Tommy John, Billy Pierce, Jim Kaat (16 Gold Gloves), Luis Tiant, etc.

 

Mark Buehrle is a slightly above average pitcher with some very impressive achievements and some pretty mediocre stats. His number should be retired by the White Sox after he departs, but in no way is he Hall of Fame material.

Right there with Ted Lyons & Billy Pierce as the greatest Sox pitchers.

 

Totally. After all, Ed Walsh never did anything except post the lowest career ERA in baseball history.

Guys like Mark and Baines not only played well for a long time, but are solid citizens and great ambassadors to the sport. I believe that has value and should be considered in the voting. It's their entire contribution to baseball, not just stats.

 

I agree with you. However, I would apply it more to keeping dishonorable people out, rather than letting lesser skilled but absolutely honorable people in. Don't admit Roger Clemens, Bonds, A-Rod, and company into the Hall to tarnish it. But don't let Buehrle and Baines and other supposedly good people in either simply for being good people.

 

Lack of honor should keep you out. Having it doesn't get you in.

You're making it sound like it has to be Baines/Buehrle or the steroid guys. None of them needs to be in there. There's no prerequisite for how many players need to be elected every year. There are still enough guys that are honorable and have the numbers to back it up. The last thing the Hall of Fame needs is more dilution.

 

You said it better than I did. Kudos.

You said it better than I did. Kudos.

 

Thanks

You keep saying this without any sound reasoning behind it.

 

Next year's Cardinals rotation:

 

Adam Wainwright: $9 million

Chris Carpenter: $11 million

Kyle Lohse: $12 millon

Jake Westbrook: $8.5 million

Jaime Garcia: arbitration eligible

 

They've got two of the top pitching prospects in the game in Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez (with the former being nearly big-league-ready).

 

Lance Berkam was just re-upped for 1 year, $12 million. They've got a club option on Yadier Molina (he's going to get a nice raise). Then, of course, they have a 1B to worry about that's going to command upwards of $30 million a year. Suffice it to say, Mark Buehrle is nowhere near a priority for them at this point.

Stl can trade a starter to make room for MB, who knows how Wainright will do come spring. Stl would dump Lohse or Westbrook in a heartbeat to make room.

Stl can trade a starter to make room for MB, who knows how Wainright will do come spring. Stl would dump Lohse or Westbrook in a heartbeat to make room.

 

Trade a starter to make room for another starter they don't have? Dump Lohse or Westbrook and eat all their salary to make room for Mark and the $10-12 million he will command over 2-3 seasons? Neither scenario makes any sense and is something you might be able to pull off on PS3 or 360.

I know the TV schedule is set far in advance, but it would be nice if the Sox, WCIU, and WGN could work out a deal to get this game on WGN so that everybody could see it.

Even though I told myself I wouldn't give the Sox any more of my money until our idiot manager is gone, I made the big splash of purchasing a 3 dollar ticket so I could see Mark's possible last start as a member of the Sox.

Even though I told myself I wouldn't give the Sox any more of my money until our idiot manager is gone, I made the big splash of purchasing a 3 dollar ticket so I could see Mark's possible last start as a member of the Sox.

 

If I could go, I would do it. Give Mark big love.

I'll watch on TV, but I'm not breaking my word just to see one guy pitch.

i'm coming out of the woodwork to go see #56. as a white sox fan, i hope we can at least have 25K there to give him the ovation and thanks he deserves. it will be an emotional night when he walks off that mound.