My patience is running out with KW

[Jordan4life_2007]

One thing worth considering though...that model might well be a lot more sustainable than we think. The Sox have managed to stay "Competitive" at some level for nearly a decade with that model, only drafting in the top 10 once. They've overhauled their roster repeatedly, and still wound up close to a pennant race every year. And for most of that time, they've had one of the bottom systems in the big leagues...they've just managed to pull their wins out of a different place, finding undervalued discards that teams were willing to give up for various reasons and turning them around.

 

This model might be a lot more sustainable than you'd think. It might look pretty darn good if we pulled out either the Swisher or Jackson trades, or if 1 of Dunn/Rios/Peavy hadn't fully imploded, or if Quentin could have stayed healthy.

 

Five missed Octobers in the last six seasons says otherwise. The current model is played out. Been played out.

[Balta1701]

Five missed Octobers in the last six seasons says otherwise. The current model is played out. Been played out.

We can argue to death over why we've missed those Octobers though. If we had just drafted slightly better over that time period, if we had 1 extra bullet to fire, or we had 1 fewer trade blow up on us, that number could change hugely.

 

Let's at least put it this way...for a team with the system where it has been the last 6+ years, the Sox have been incredibly successful. A minor imporvement to the system or a minor improvement to the trades that have been made, or even a minor improvement to our luck might well have put this team in the playoffs more than that.

 

And that's not even saying anything about the manager for that time period.

[elrockinMT]

We can argue to death over why we've missed those Octobers though. If we had just drafted slightly better over that time period, if we had 1 extra bullet to fire, or we had 1 fewer trade blow up on us, that number could change hugely.

 

Let's at least put it this way...for a team with the system where it has been the last 6+ years, the Sox have been incredibly successful. A minor imporvement to the system or a minor improvement to the trades that have been made, or even a minor improvement to our luck might well have put this team in the playoffs more than that.

 

And that's not even saying anything about the manager for that time period.

 

 

The manager had something to do with success too. My thought is this: Tony Larusa is in line to be the new Sox GM, or at the least he will be in a position of front office authority.

[gatnom]

We can argue to death over why we've missed those Octobers though. If we had just drafted slightly better over that time period, if we had 1 extra bullet to fire, or we had 1 fewer trade blow up on us, that number could change hugely.

 

Let's at least put it this way...for a team with the system where it has been the last 6+ years, the Sox have been incredibly successful. A minor imporvement to the system or a minor improvement to the trades that have been made, or even a minor improvement to our luck might well have put this team in the playoffs more than that.

 

And that's not even saying anything about the manager for that time period.

 

I think you're proving the point that our current model doesn't work right here. Way more often than not, we have not had seasons where we make it to the playoffs regardless of how you want to define us as being competitive. Our model needs to be adjusted to take into account that minor league system because that's the thing we have the most control over.

 

Also, we must have different definitions of incredibly successful...

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

I think you're proving the point that our current model doesn't work right here. Way more often than not, we have not had seasons where we make it to the playoffs regardless of how you want to define us as being competitive. Our model needs to be adjusted to take into account that minor league system because that's the thing we have the most control over.

 

Also, we must have different definitions of incredibly successful...

 

This is a good point. It's like they say to hitters in slumps, "don't try hard to make your mechanics like they were when things were going, solve the problem as it is now." It doesn't matter what happened before when we were successful - we aren't successful now and we need to do whatever looks like it makes the most sense to become successful.

 

A tangent: it seems like every year I think we should be good, we suck, and every year i think we're going to sucks or be middling, we're good. Is it possible we've just been lucky a couple times?

[caulfield12]

The other thing is that is this model only successful because with the exception of the Twins, our competition for the AL Central was grossly inferior (2005-2006 and 2001-2002, maybe 2003 were more competitive years for the division in terms of overall strength) to say the AL East or the NL East?

 

Pretty clearly, we only would have done well in 2000 and 2005 in the AL East. But that would have left us with only one division during KW's tenure, the World Series year of 2005.

 

We can recall the Blackout Game of 2008 fondly, but we were inches within being beaten by the Twins many times in that final week of play...before it even came to the knockout game. Without Danks, Thome, Alexei Ramirez, Floyd and Quentin, hitting every move exactly right from 2006-2008, there's no way that we get there and pull it off. Without Rick Hahn's son's coin flip, the masses are at the gates of KW's manse with pitchforks before now.

 

Then again, you can argue that in 2000, 2003 (August), 2005/2006, 2008 and stretches of 2010, we were very arguably the best or one of the best teams in baseball for prolonged stretches of excellence, whereas the Twins were exceptionally well-equipped to win the division but not advance further.

 

Ironic, in that both teams with grossly different models find themselves in very similar positions (Twins/Sox) entering this campaign.

Edited January 16, 2012 by caulfield12