maggsmaggs Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Well Septimo looks like a keeper at least. Not an easy situation to be placed in with Granderson and Teixeira and two pitches later, inning over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) You are smarter than this. Are you going to argue that the professional Cuban league is the same as high school ball in the US? Dayan Viciedo was able to have success in the Cuban leagues at age what, 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 It's way too early to say that Viciedo has not shown a 'capacity to improve'. We'll see how he plays next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Do you really think that very many people come into the bigs and actually know that? Hell, just thinking about guys in this game, Robinson Cano didn't know that, Curtis Granderson didn't know that (dude struck out 174 times in his first full year). Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) It's way too early to say that Viciedo has not shown a 'capacity to improve'. We'll see how he plays next year. No, you're not allowed to. What 23 year olds do in their first 3 months as full time players define their entire careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) Dayan Viciedo was able to have success in the Cuban leagues at age what, 16? Because he's incredibly gifted physically. Doesn't guarantee he's going to make the adjustments he needs to be a great MLB player, which is what Marty and I have been arguing. Â He is showing very little ability to adjust his approach, regardless of MLB experience. This is the biggest indicator there is when evaluating very good young hitters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) No, you're not allowed to. What 23 year olds do in their first 3 months as full time players define their entire careers. Â At what point can we stop citing his age as a positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 wow, seriously. We blow our load on offense faster than a virgin on prom night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 No RH hitter EVER will want to play in this park dead mans alley to left center! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) No, you're not allowed to. What 23 year olds do in their first 3 months as full time players define their entire careers. Except he did this two years ago as a 21 year old as well. Â He is the EXACT same hitter he was then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) At what point can we stop citing his age as a positive? When he's 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Because he's incredibly gifted physically. Doesn't guarantee he's going to make the adjustments he needs to be a great MLB player, which is what Marty and I have been arguing. He is showing very little ability to adjust his approach, regardless of MLB experience. This is the biggest indicator there is when evaluating very good young hitters. Actually, the ball that got him out the first time he came up, the up and in fastball killed him. That shows up in the fangraphs version where he was a negative value player against the fastball despite being only a part time player. He's also gotten quite a bit better against the cutter.  His weakness has actually been against the 2 seamer...the pitch with sink on it. Which probably means that he's pushing people off of the fastball and onto different ways of getting him out....which is why everyone's working on the "Get him out low and away" like we're seeing the Yankees doing right now, because he's getting to the balls he used to get beat on inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Really? To me it seems like Viciedo is vulnerable to high fastballs and anything thats away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hold em here. Youk bloop, Dunn bomb coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I'm not really happy being down and Floyd has looked iffy, but Chavez's homer was a puffball that wouldn't go out in 90% of other MLB parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) Because he's incredibly gifted physically. Doesn't guarantee he's going to make the adjustments he needs to be a great MLB player, which is what Marty and I have been arguing. He is showing very little ability to adjust his approach, regardless of MLB experience. This is the biggest indicator there is when evaluating very good young hitters.  I have seen him make adjustments?? What you're seeing today is the result of an adjustment. He's trying to catch on to the inside fastball and it's hurting his ability to hit the outside fastball. He's also getting more patient, far more selective than he was just a couple months ago. I think expectations are too high for how quickly he should adjust. He's been very productive, just learn to love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) Actually, the ball that got him out the first time he came up, the up and in fastball killed him. That shows up in the fangraphs version where he was a negative value player against the fastball despite being only a part time player. He's also gotten quite a bit better against the cutter. His weakness has actually been against the 2 seamer...the pitch with sink on it. Which probably means that he's pushing people off of the fastball and onto different ways of getting him out....which is why everyone's working on the "Get him out low and away" like we're seeing the Yankees doing right now, because he's getting to the balls he used to get beat on inside. He's not getting to pitches on the outer half either.  Face it, he swings as hard as he f***ing can. God knows if he picks up the spin on any of these pitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Really? To me it seems like Viciedo is vulnerable to high fastballs and anything thats away. Â One of few pitches he hit early this year and previously was the outside fastball because he tried to take it to the opposite field. I have been b****ing about his inability to hit inside fastballs for a while now but it seems he's going up there ready to cover that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) He's not getting to pitches on the outer half either. Face it, he swings as hard as he f***ing can. God knows if he picks up the spin on any of these pitches. Which is...exactly what I just said. He's now getting around on the inside pitch better so now people are working on him a different way...pushing him low and away to get ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) He's not getting to pitches on the outer half either. Face it, he swings as hard as he f***ing can. God knows if he picks up the spin on any of these pitches.  Funny thing to say about a guy who hits the majority of his homers on offspeed pitches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) SEPTIMIUS SEVERUS SECOND STRIKEOUT Edited July 1, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) I have seen him make adjustments?? What you're seeing today is the result of an adjustment. He's trying to catch on to the inside fastball and it's hurting his ability to hit the outside fastball. He's also getting more patient, far more selective than he was just a couple months ago. I think expectations are too high for how quickly he should adjust. He's been very productive, just learn to love it. Yes, his 11 walks are a real indicator of how selective he has become. Â Keep in mind no one is saying we should guillotine him. We're saying trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Septimo is a K machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:22 PM) Funny thing to say about a guy who hits the majority of his homers on offspeed pitches Because they are usually the only ones he can actually catch up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:24 PM) Because they are usually the only ones he can actually catch up to? Because they're more often lower in the zone and that's his most dangerous area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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