I know it was anti-climactic but...

[Marty34]

Question is after the break, does he pitch against the Royals and miss the Tigers series or skip the Royals and and pitch against the Red Sox and Tigers?

[cabiness42]

Then why does Ventura keep leaving Sale in an "extra" 1-2-3 innings in some of the games which the outcome is no longer in doubt.

 

This bullpen is very short on experience right now, and I'd prefer not to waste bullpen innings when it isn't necessary.

 

I also think we're all assuming that Sale is going to turn into a pumpkin after 150 innings and I'm not necessarily buying that.

[iamshack]

This bullpen is very short on experience right now, and I'd prefer not to waste bullpen innings when it isn't necessary.

 

I also think we're all assuming that Sale is going to turn into a pumpkin after 150 innings and I'm not necessarily buying that.

Me neither...do we really believe that suddenly we are going to see this vast decrease in velocity and effectiveness once he hits 160 IP? And if we were, would it really matter if we skipped one start here or there or if he pitches an extra inning here or there in a game where the outcome has already been decided?

 

I think at this point you just ride him all the way home and see how fast he can take you...doesn't mean you have to press him unnecessarily, but I don't think saving 12 innings over the course of two-three months is going to make a huge difference.

[Balta1701]

Me neither...do we really believe that suddenly we are going to see this vast decrease in velocity and effectiveness once he hits 160 IP? And if we were, would it really matter if we skipped one start here or there or if he pitches an extra inning here or there in a game where the outcome has already been decided?

 

I think at this point you just ride him all the way home and see how fast he can take you...doesn't mean you have to press him unnecessarily, but I don't think saving 12 innings over the course of two-three months is going to make a huge difference.

I think the big worry is that if they don't at least show some care with him, if they try to push him close to 200 innings without extra rest throughout the year...the end result will be what we saw in early May...elbow soreness. or worse.

 

There may not be a single line where it happens, but if you can avoid it by giving him a few extra days off...then shoot, why not.

[Marty34]

The Sox are pushing their starters more this year than they have in the recent past. That might be part of the price they have to pay to contend. I'm okay with that because while they have had success keeping their pitchers healthy, they have 1 postseason win in the last 6 seasons.

[iamshack]

I think the big worry is that if they don't at least show some care with him, if they try to push him close to 200 innings without extra rest throughout the year...the end result will be what we saw in early May...elbow soreness. or worse.

 

There may not be a single line where it happens, but if you can avoid it by giving him a few extra days off...then shoot, why not.

I'm very pleased with how they are handling him. If it works out that he can basically skip a start and get his kudos at the ASG, then so be it.

[Balta1701]

The Sox are pushing their starters more this year than they have in the recent past. That might be part of the price they have to pay to contend. I'm okay with that because while they have had success keeping their pitchers healthy, they have 1 postseason win in the last 6 seasons.

Really, they're just pushing their starters about as hard as last year. Full season last year, Starters threw 1021.2 innings, 3rd most in the AL. This year, through 80 games, 502 innings. If Axe goes 8.2 innings today somehow, they'll be on the exact same innings pace as last year.

 

The big difference is of course that they were running 6 starters last year but then had 2 starters who couldn't throw more than 5 innings at a time without falling apart.

[Marty34]

Really, they're just pushing their starters about as hard as last year. Full season last year, Starters threw 1021.2 innings, 3rd most in the AL. This year, through 80 games, 502 innings. If Axe goes 8.2 innings today somehow, they'll be on the exact same innings pace as last year.

 

The big difference is of course that they were running 6 starters last year but then had 2 starters who couldn't throw more than 5 innings at a time without falling apart.

 

The starters have had a lot of 110+ pitch counts this year. Just watching MLB this year (haven't researched it) that seems to be a thing so far, higher pitch counts for starters.

[southsider2k5]

Me neither...do we really believe that suddenly we are going to see this vast decrease in velocity and effectiveness once he hits 160 IP? And if we were, would it really matter if we skipped one start here or there or if he pitches an extra inning here or there in a game where the outcome has already been decided?

 

I think at this point you just ride him all the way home and see how fast he can take you...doesn't mean you have to press him unnecessarily, but I don't think saving 12 innings over the course of two-three months is going to make a huge difference.

 

Don't forget you could also see the difference next year. Part of me wonders if Humber is going through this now.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox are pushing their starters more this year than they have in the recent past. That might be part of the price they have to pay to contend. I'm okay with that because while they have had success keeping their pitchers healthy, they have 1 postseason win in the last 6 seasons.

 

I don't see too much difference between how they handle them now and in the past. I think the pitchers have always been Coopers thing.

[iamshack]

Don't forget you could also see the difference next year. Part of me wonders if Humber is going through this now.

Yeah, but I'll worry about next year next year. This year, I'd like to win while we have the chance.

[iamshack]

The starters have had a lot of 110+ pitch counts this year. Just watching MLB this year (haven't researched it) that seems to be a thing so far, higher pitch counts for starters.

I think the entire League is starting to bring the pendulum back a bit from a bit of a dramatic focus on pitch counts. Seems the bigger key is how many stressful innings the pitcher is going through. But innings like Sale was pitching yesterday...he was just cruising...I don't think they worry too much about those innings.

[Balta1701]

I think the entire League is starting to bring the pendulum back a bit from a bit of a dramatic focus on pitch counts. Seems the bigger key is how many stressful innings the pitcher is going through. But innings like Sale was pitching yesterday...he was just cruising...I don't think they worry too much about those innings.

Starters innings around the bigs are up about 40 innings per team since the end of the steroid era, but actually down slightly but probably not significantly from last year.

[caulfield12]

Look at all the problems the Rangers are having this year with Feliz, Ogando, Holland, etc.

 

Seems like teams always suffer the year after that deep playoff run, unless they're a "superteam" who can sustain a couple of key pitching injuries.

 

We saw this phenomenon firsthand in 2000-01, 2006, etc.

 

 

If anything, we should be more worried about how hard Robin's pushing all the starters, particularly AJ. You just wonder how long they can hold up. It worked wonderfully for Ozzie to have his Sunday line-ups in 2005 and 2008, but the pendulum's really swung back the other direction, with our bench being perhaps the least utilized of any in the majors (and hard to fault Ventura, they're really just not that good that any of those guys should be pressing for additional playing time or starting roles).

 

 

[Jerksticks]

If anything, we should be more worried about how hard Robin's pushing all the starters, particularly AJ. You just wonder how long they can hold up. It worked wonderfully for Ozzie to have his Sunday line-ups in 2005 and 2008, but the pendulum's really swung back the other direction, with our bench being perhaps the least utilized of any in the majors (and hard to fault Ventura, they're really just not that good that any of those guys should be pressing for additional playing time or starting roles).

 

I hear ya but it's also nice to finally have A LINEUP. Looks like they will sink or swin together. I guess that's how I prefer it. Paulie, Tank and AJ are the only guys that need days off IMO.

[YASNY]

Look at all the problems the Rangers are having this year with Feliz, Ogando, Holland, etc.

 

Seems like teams always suffer the year after that deep playoff run, unless they're a "superteam" who can sustain a couple of key pitching injuries.

 

We saw this phenomenon firsthand in 2000-01, 2006, etc.

 

 

If anything, we should be more worried about how hard Robin's pushing all the starters, particularly AJ. You just wonder how long they can hold up. It worked wonderfully for Ozzie to have his Sunday line-ups in 2005 and 2008, but the pendulum's really swung back the other direction, with our bench being perhaps the least utilized of any in the majors (and hard to fault Ventura, they're really just not that good that any of those guys should be pressing for additional playing time or starting roles).

 

The Rangers didn't suffer too much from their deep 2010 playoff run considering they repeated as AL champs in '11.

[caulfield12]

The Rangers didn't suffer too much from their deep 2010 playoff run considering they repeated as AL champs in '11.

 

 

But you're maybe starting to see the physical effects of all those extra IP start to take their toll.

 

Luckily, they can spend/acquire their way out of it, with Oswalt and Hamels/Greinke.

 

 

[GoodAsGould]

Look at all the problems the Rangers are having this year with Feliz, Ogando, Holland, etc.

 

Seems like teams always suffer the year after that deep playoff run, unless they're a "superteam" who can sustain a couple of key pitching injuries.

 

We saw this phenomenon firsthand in 2000-01, 2006, etc.

 

 

If anything, we should be more worried about how hard Robin's pushing all the starters, particularly AJ. You just wonder how long they can hold up. It worked wonderfully for Ozzie to have his Sunday line-ups in 2005 and 2008, but the pendulum's really swung back the other direction, with our bench being perhaps the least utilized of any in the majors (and hard to fault Ventura, they're really just not that good that any of those guys should be pressing for additional playing time or starting roles).

 

Feliz was a converted RP trying to be a starter and Holland pitched a normal starter innings last season. Ogando's injury is a strained groin and was having a good season don't see how any of those have to do with their deep playoff runs. Hell the guy who pitched the most for those 2 teams only is having the best season of his career now for the Angels. I will agree that AJ could probably use a few more days off or maybe at DH with Dunn at 1B a couple times given his age and the position but besides that this team is being managed perfectly imo.

Edited July 4, 2012 by GoodAsGould

[YASNY]

Feliz was a converted RP trying to be a starter and Holland pitched a normal starter innings last season. Ogando's injury is a strained groin and was having a good season don't see how any of those have to do with their deep playoff runs. Hell the guy who pitched the most for those 2 teams only is having the best season of his career now for the Angels. I will agree that AJ could probably use a few more days off or maybe at DH with Dunn at 1B a couple times given his age and the position but besides that this team is being managed perfectly imo.

 

Robin has done good job this year.