2013 Win-Loss Prediction Thread - Annual and Official

[NorthSideSox72]

84-78. For every guy that can break out and have a big year, we have just as many that are due for regression due to age, injuries, or whatever. In the end, I see a big jumble of mediocrity and another .500 team.

 

I keep seeing this... who? Who is due for regression? Rios I can see. But who else had abnormally good years last year that are still with the team? I think as far as non-injury-related regression candidates, Rios and maybe Crain are good possibilities. Are people thinking Konerko? He already fell off as the year went on, so unless you think he's really going to fall off a cliff, I don't see it.

 

I think the list of players who were below average for their careers, are coming back from being gone, or are young and developing, is a lot longer than the list of regression candidates.

 

[southsider2k5]

I keep seeing this... who? Who is due for regression? Rios I can see. But who else had abnormally good years last year that are still with the team? I think as far as non-injury-related regression candidates, Rios and maybe Crain are good possibilities. Are people thinking Konerko? He already fell off as the year went on, so unless you think he's really going to fall off a cliff, I don't see it.

 

I think the list of players who were below average for their careers, are coming back from being gone, or are young and developing, is a lot longer than the list of regression candidates.

 

There is more chance for regression out of pitchers than hitters, IMO.

[LittleHurt05]

I keep seeing this... who? Who is due for regression? Rios I can see. But who else had abnormally good years last year that are still with the team? I think as far as non-injury-related regression candidates, Rios and maybe Crain are good possibilities. Are people thinking Konerko? He already fell off as the year went on, so unless you think he's really going to fall off a cliff, I don't see it.

 

I think the list of players who were below average for their careers, are coming back from being gone, or are young and developing, is a lot longer than the list of regression candidates.

 

Quintana - obvious

 

Konerko - his injured 2nd half was bad, but his first two months were Cabrera-esque. I doubt he repeats that, which was huge for the Sox first half

 

Sale- The kid is a stud, but there's no guarantee he puts up another Cy Young caliber season. A 3.50-3.75 ERA season in the AL is great, but that would be a drop off from last season.

 

Crain - injured already as you mentioned

 

Peavy - that was his best season in 5 years, hope he can repeat it

 

Veal - can't get every lefty out forever

 

Dunn - he was just OK last year, but 2011 still happened and he's 33. Still no guarantees that he is past the '11 hiccups

 

I'm not trying to predict doom & gloom for all these players (like some people around here do), but if a couple of them can't perform up to last year's level, that could be the difference between 90 wins & 85 wins.

Edited March 17, 2013 by LittleHurt05

[NorthSideSox72]

Quintana - obvious

 

Konerko - his injured 2nd half was bad, but his first two months were Cabrera-esque. I doubt he repeats that, which was huge for the Sox first half

 

Sale- The kid is a stud, but there's no guarantee he puts up another Cy Young caliber season. A 3.50-3.75 ERA season in the AL is great, but that would be a drop off from last season.

 

Crain - injured already as you mentioned

 

Peavy - that was his best season in 5 years, hope he can repeat it

 

Veal - can't get every lefty out forever

 

Dunn - he was just OK last year, but 2011 still happened and he's 33. Still no guarantees that he is past the '11 hiccups

 

I'm not trying to predict doom & gloom for all these players (like some people around here do), but if a couple of them can't perform up to last year's level, that could be the difference between 90 wins & 85 wins.

 

Much of your analysis seems to be ignoring half of the season...

 

Why is Quintana obvious? If anything, I think he's likely to improve in at least the sense that now he's stretched out to full season innings. And he's already added some new tactics in the spring. What is "obvious" with him? You think he's going to get hurt, or you think the league will catch up to him?

 

Konerko's 2 month binge was offset by nagging injuries (and whatever else) that caused a poor last 4 months. His OPS on the full season was the lowest he's posted since 2009. The only reason to think regression with him is age - which is certainly possible to be an issue.

 

Sale had a very good season, but not a Cy Young season - he had been until he started to hit a bit of a wall. Barring injury, he should push past that wall. I don't think a similar season is out of the question, if he's healthy - which is the big question with him. That's really my only concern.

 

Veal replaced the use of other relievers who didn't do as well - but veal was only there part of the season. Now he'll be around longer - I call that an improvement.

 

Peavy had his best season in 5 years? Peavy had his 2nd season after injury - that is the key. And his 3.37 ERA is pretty much in line with his career norms, in fact higher than his norms pre-2010. And he's going to be 32, still in his pitching prime. You make it sound like his 2012 was outside his norm - on the contrary, it was almost exactly his norm.

 

I don't disagree about Crain, or Rios. And with Konerko there is some risk that age finally catches up with him - though he looks awfully sharp this spring so far.

 

[caulfield12]

83-79

 

Stuck in the middle of the pack.

[LittleHurt05]

Much of your analysis seems to be ignoring half of the season...

 

Why is Quintana obvious? If anything, I think he's likely to improve in at least the sense that now he's stretched out to full season innings. And he's already added some new tactics in the spring. What is "obvious" with him? You think he's going to get hurt, or you think the league will catch up to him?

 

Konerko's 2 month binge was offset by nagging injuries (and whatever else) that caused a poor last 4 months. His OPS on the full season was the lowest he's posted since 2009. The only reason to think regression with him is age - which is certainly possible to be an issue.

 

Sale had a very good season, but not a Cy Young season - he had been until he started to hit a bit of a wall. Barring injury, he should push past that wall. I don't think a similar season is out of the question, if he's healthy - which is the big question with him. That's really my only concern.

 

Veal replaced the use of other relievers who didn't do as well - but veal was only there part of the season. Now he'll be around longer - I call that an improvement.

 

Peavy had his best season in 5 years? Peavy had his 2nd season after injury - that is the key. And his 3.37 ERA is pretty much in line with his career norms, in fact higher than his norms pre-2010. And he's going to be 32, still in his pitching prime. You make it sound like his 2012 was outside his norm - on the contrary, it was almost exactly his norm.

 

I don't disagree about Crain, or Rios. And with Konerko there is some risk that age finally catches up with him - though he looks awfully sharp this spring so far.

 

With Quintana I just see the league catching up with him. It would be nice, but I don't think he's the next Mark Buehrle.

I guess Konerko's 2nd half did kind of offset his MVP-like 1st half, so I guess in the end that might not change. At his age you never know, but he has stayed consistent.

 

If Sale & Peavy pitch as well last year, then that would be huge for this team, and it definitely could happen. From year to year, sometimes starters have up & down years, especially a guy like Sale in his 2nd season as a SP. I guess if everything goes well, I see this team's ceiling at 92-93 wins, but I see some hiccups along the way and them ending up closer to .500

[peteward]

74-88. Things could turn ugly right off the bat in April.

3 games against KC who we always have difficulty beating.

After a brief homestand 3 against Washington and 4 against Toronto.

If Detroit puts on an early winning streak, we could be 5-6 games out by May 1 and never make up that ground.

 

The way the schedule has our games against Detroit backloaded in the second half is interesting. If we are

10 games out by the All-Star break it might be time to start unloading a few players.

At some point the Theo Epstein strategy might be the best course to take - bring up minor league players, tank the season and get some high Draft picks.

I hate to see that happen but I reluctantly admit that it has worked for the Cubs in amassing a pool of talented young players, some of whom have star potential. At some point it may be time to throw in the towel for 2013 and 2014 in order to become competitive in the future. The Sox have to find a way to get better against Division foes like Detroit and also to compete in this town for market share against the Cubs organization who is focused on the future like a laser.

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

Hot start, a couple trades, we end with 94 wins and a division title. This season is going to be awesome. The Royals are going to push us, the Indians will be a mess, the Tigers up and down with long winning streaks and long losing streaks, and the Twins will show some improvement as the year goes on but they'll thankfully spend one more year laying down for us when we play them.

[The Ultimate Champion]

With Quintana I just see the league catching up with him. It would be nice, but I don't think he's the next Mark Buehrle.

I guess Konerko's 2nd half did kind of offset his MVP-like 1st half, so I guess in the end that might not change. At his age you never know, but he has stayed consistent.

 

If Sale & Peavy pitch as well last year, then that would be huge for this team, and it definitely could happen. From year to year, sometimes starters have up & down years, especially a guy like Sale in his 2nd season as a SP. I guess if everything goes well, I see this team's ceiling at 92-93 wins, but I see some hiccups along the way and them ending up closer to .500

Re: Q, catching up to what? If he's sharp in the zone and mixing things up well then that's what you call pitching, and hitters generally don't like that stuff. Hitters like pitchers who fall behind early, walk people, and force themselves to make mistakes.

[Chicago White Sox]

At some point the Theo Epstein strategy might be the best course to take - bring up minor league players, tank the season and get some high Draft picks.

I hate to see that happen but I reluctantly admit that it has worked for the Cubs in amassing a pool of talented young players, some of whom have star potential. At some point it may be time to throw in the towel for 2013 and 2014 in order to become competitive in the future. The Sox have to find a way to get better against Division foes like Detroit and also to compete in this town for market share against the Cubs organization who is focused on the future like a laser.

I'm so f***ing sick of this blind love for Theo Epstein and all things Cubs around here.

 

Epstein's rebuilding process (i.e. purposely losing games) has done very little for the Cubs system. The Cubs #1 & #5 top prospects were both Jim Hendry draft picks, as is the majority of their system. Their #3 prospect was bought for $30 million, and unfortunately for them, the new CBA will not allow them to buy prospects like that anymore. Their #4 prospect was acquired in a trade, which was indirectly the result of another botched trade with Atlanta.

 

That leaves their #2 prospect, who was the result of a high draft pick. This a prospect years away from contributing and even he was outperformed by the HS outfielder we were able to select later in the 1st round

 

The point isn't that Epstein hasn't done things to help the Cubs. It's just that going the full rebuilding route hasn't had much impact yet. People need to stop pretending that Epstein is a miracle worker and realize what he is. A very smart, business savy leader who was able to leverage certain draft loopholes and financial advantages to give the Red Sox an edge. He's going to have to reinvent himself, because the new CBA isn't doing him any favors. I'm not saying that's not possible, but let's put away the jump to conclusions mats and not award the Cubs the 2016 World Series trophy just yet.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Re: Q, catching up to what? If he's sharp in the zone and mixing things up well then that's what you call pitching, and hitters generally don't like that stuff. Hitters like pitchers who fall behind early, walk people, and force themselves to make mistakes.

 

 

Very true, but its easier said than done. There's a reason why there aren't that many successful pitchers like Mark Buerhle in the majors. I hope Q can keep it up, but I'm not confident.

[flavum]

I'm so f***ing sick of this blind love for Theo Epstein and all things Cubs around here.

 

Epstein's rebuilding process (i.e. purposely losing games) has done very little for the Cubs system. The Cubs #1 & #5 top prospects were both Jim Hendry draft picks, as is the majority of their system. Their #3 prospect was bought for $30 million, and unfortunately for them, the new CBA will not allow them to buy prospects like that anymore. Their #4 prospect was acquired in a trade, which was indirectly the result of another botched trade with Atlanta.

 

That leaves their #2 prospect, who was the result of a high draft pick. This a prospect years away from contributing and even he was outperformed by the HS outfielder we were able to select later in the 1st round

 

The point isn't that Epstein hasn't done things to help the Cubs. It's just that going the full rebuilding route hasn't had much impact yet. People need to stop pretending that Epstein is a miracle worker and realize what he is. A very smart, business savy leader who was able to leverage certain draft loopholes and financial advantages to give the Red Sox an edge. He's going to have to reinvent himself, because the new CBA isn't doing him any favors. I'm not saying that's not possible, but let's put away the jump to conclusions mats and not award the Cubs the 2016 World Series trophy just yet.

 

Yeah, there's no guarantee what the Cubs are doing will get them what they're going for, which is sustained success. But if they go from 2015 to 2024 with 7 or 8 playoff appearances and a World Series win or two, Epstein and crew will deserve a lot of credit. Until then, it's just a rebuilding process that has no guarantee of working.

Edited March 17, 2013 by flavum

[peteward]

I'm so f***ing sick of this blind love for Theo Epstein and all things Cubs around here.

 

Granted it is not all to Epstein's credit but my point about market share in Chicago and the Cubs was broader.

It was based on the fact that:

 

a.) the Cubs are going to be very good and probably that will be sooner than later, perhaps this season.

b.) tanking the team helped them get Almora, Baez and possible Mark Appel or another great pitcher.

c.) OK, Epstein had Castro, obtained Soler and fell into the Rizzo deal with help from Hoyer, but they have them

d.) Ricketts is going to invest about a half a Billion in Wrigley not counting possible

private development dollars in surrounding buildings and infrastructure.

 

All of the above will make the Cubs into an even more attractive draw regardless if they actually win a WS. And theynwill have an exciting and winning team. Let's not go down the list of their young players like Soler, Almora, Rizzo, Castro, etc. but have you read about or seen this Baez kid hit yet? That kid is going to be special if not sensational.

 

So here we sit with the Cell and all it's flaws and a team that cannot compete with Detroit. Add to that the fact that we will face improved teams in Kansas City and Cleveland. As KW has said on numerous occasion, the Sox depend on attendance to get money to purchase free agents that improve our club. How is that going to work out moving forward if we are a 2d, 3rd or 4th place team that is getting older? And, I know. who cares if the Cubs get better, win a WS or 2, but realistically, when the Cubs get better or win a championship the attention of the media and the fans will shift away from our Sox, maybe for a long time or until we win again.

 

That is why Reinsdorf should start thinking about doing something to both improve the team in the near future with young players, make improvements to the stadium and the surrounding area, and perhaps make a few player acquisitions over time that will resonate with fans, just like JR and EE years ago after they purchased the Sox.

They should have outbid the Cubs for Soler for starters.

 

One more thing in case the AJ thing comes up again. I do not think the Sox would have been competitive this year with AJ. My problem with not signing him for one year is not only will we be worse but that AJ should have been signed and made a permanent part of the franchise for other reasons. That is what a lot of Sox fans wanted and that would have benefited the franchise beyond his performance on the field. Meanwhile let's get realistic, Flowers is going nowhere and he is never going to be a draw for fans. Flowers jerseys anyone? Please, there is no upside with him. He is what he is - a .225 hitter with 20 home runs, 175 K's and an over-hyped defensive ability, when he is healthy enough to play. Is he out again today with the back?

 

And I love Keppinger and Gillaspie but they are utility infielders, mere patches in a tire that is slowly going flat.

I am calling on the the Sox to have a sense of urgency and to stop this spin about if a,b,c,d,e,and f work out and Detroit chokes, hey we could win the Division. We know that's Bulsh1t.

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I'm so f***ing sick of this blind love for Theo Epstein and all things Cubs around here.

 

Epstein's rebuilding process (i.e. purposely losing games) has done very little for the Cubs system. The Cubs #1 & #5 top prospects were both Jim Hendry draft picks, as is the majority of their system. Their #3 prospect was bought for $30 million, and unfortunately for them, the new CBA will not allow them to buy prospects like that anymore. Their #4 prospect was acquired in a trade, which was indirectly the result of another botched trade with Atlanta.

 

That leaves their #2 prospect, who was the result of a high draft pick. This a prospect years away from contributing and even he was outperformed by the HS outfielder we were able to select later in the 1st round

 

The point isn't that Epstein hasn't done things to help the Cubs. It's just that going the full rebuilding route hasn't had much impact yet. People need to stop pretending that Epstein is a miracle worker and realize what he is. A very smart, business savy leader who was able to leverage certain draft loopholes and financial advantages to give the Red Sox an edge. He's going to have to reinvent himself, because the new CBA isn't doing him any favors. I'm not saying that's not possible, but let's put away the jump to conclusions mats and not award the Cubs the 2016 World Series trophy just yet.

 

Preach on. Honestly I have no why Sox fans are spending time panicking about what the Cubs are going to do.. IN 2015!?! Especially when the CBA changes tied cement shoes to their rebuilding efforts.

[Marty34]

Very true, but its easier said than done. There's a reason why there aren't that many successful pitchers like Mark Buerhle in the majors. I hope Q can keep it up, but I'm not confident.

 

I hope the Sox found a reliable starter in Quintana too. I'm cautious because of his 2nd half performance and that the Yankees released him (a 22 y.o. left-hander.)

 

[ScottyDo]

I hope the Sox found a reliable starter in Quintana too. I'm cautious because of his 2nd half performance and that the Yankees released him (a 22 y.o. left-hander.)

I also am cautious about Q. It's possible that he's in the Buehrle mold, but those pitchers are relatively rare. To be fair about the Yankees releasing him, though, a) they have done tons of stupid things with their young players and b) the Buehrle-mold pitcher is very easy to overlook since their most noticeable trait is results in the majors.

[Chicago White Sox]

I hope the Sox found a reliable starter in Quintana too. I'm cautious because of his 2nd half performance and that the Yankees released him (a 22 y.o. left-hander.)

…the Yankees did not put Quintana on the 40-man roster, making him a free agent. GM Brian Cashman said they deliberated on the matter and, despite a dearth of quality lefties in the system, “We looked at him as a fringy prospect. We offered him a minor league contract to stay, but not a 40-man roster position. We didn’t feel he was ahead of other guys we gave spots to. It was a numbers game, but right now it does not look like a good decision.”

 

Even Cashman seems to think it was a poor decision. Also, take a look at Quintana's numbers as a 22 year in high A with the Yankees affiliate and they were pretty good. Seems like he kind of had his breakout season at the wrong time for them and the Yankees made their decision to let him go based on pure stuff and not on what his limited history as a starter suggested he might be.

[Chicago White Sox]

Preach on. Honestly I have no why Sox fans are spending time panicking about what the Cubs are going to do.. IN 2015!?! Especially when the CBA changes tied cement shoes to their rebuilding efforts.

That's exactly how I feel. I'll start worrying about the Cubs if and when all these prospects turn into quality major leaguers. Until then, they're all unknowns just like any other team's prospects.

[flavum]

That's exactly how I feel. I'll start worrying about the Cubs if and when all these prospects turn into quality major leaguers. Until then, they're all unknowns just like any other team's prospects.

 

Why worry about them even then?

 

I worry about one team - the White Sox.

 

As a baseball fan, I would respect the Cubs organization if this plan they're trying to produce actually works over time. Until then, there are no guarantees it will work.

[Chicago White Sox]

Why worry about them even then?

 

I worry about one team - the White Sox.

 

As a baseball fan, I would respect the Cubs organization if this plan they're trying to produce actually works over time. Until then, there are no guarantees it will work.

The only reason to worry about the Cubs is we compete in the same market as them. If they suck for an extended period of time, there will be more casual fans willing contribute their money to our cause. If the opposite happens, then there will be less money to work with. IMO, this is simply a financial concern.

 

But I agree with you, we should worry about the White Sox first and forement. And if you're going to worry about another team it should be the Tigers, since they're going be our main competitors for the next few years.

[southsider2k5]

Why worry about them even then?

 

I worry about one team - the White Sox.

 

As a baseball fan, I would respect the Cubs organization if this plan they're trying to produce actually works over time. Until then, there are no guarantees it will work.

 

And honestly, they matter much less than what Cleveland, KC, Detroit, and Minny are doing.

[The Ultimate Champion]

The Cubs are trying that classical/romanticized/ideological style of total rebuilding where you tear down absolutely everything and rebuild it from scratch. In their case however they are potentially hamstringing themselves unnecessarily by doing it. The idea should be to identify all the resources you have, all the advantages, all the major disadvantages, etc. and then come up with an action plan to use your strengths to create the best new product possible in the least amount of time. With the Cubs their biggest advantage is that the fans will support the team and spend their money even if the product quality isn't very good, and their biggest disadvantage is their need for a new or greatly renovated stadium. I don't know what they are planning to do re: the stadium but I'm not sure how a s*** team helps them get one (they aren't the Marlins) and I'm also not sure why they feel it best to test the resolve of their fans (again) by intentionally putting a dogs*** team on the field and talking about "the future" all day when their fans will happily support a mediocre club that in ST is promoted as a contender. I'm not sure why they would choose to rebuild the way they are, I mean, rebuilding from the ground up starts in the FO, deals with scouting and player development, Latin America, overall organization and communication internally, etc. and then when it makes its way onto the field that starts in Rookie League and below. The ground-up rebuild doesn'tn start at the MLB level, that's just where it ends ideally in 3-5 years, so why tear that down if you don't have to? Buy talent, take advantage of your fans commitment level, trade it if you want to collect picks, etc. This isn't the NBA where the draft pick game rarely produces stars and superstars past the first couple picks; in MLB this draft routinely produces stars and superstars intermittently anywhere from 1st overall into the 2nd or 3rd rounds and sometimes later, and often the best players aren't even eligible for the amateur draft. And the draft is the only positive of losing, Rule-4 or 5, plus waiver claiming order.

 

That romantic type of approach to rebuilding only seems to work for the Rays. Don't count on that, don't even think about them. No one can be the Rays. The Royals made a trade and are a better team because of it, because they added proven veteran talent, and if they want to win a division in the next couple years they will have to continue on in that path. The O's only made noise after continuing to add vets around a couple developed prospects. Detroit's rebuild completed with the signings of IRoid & OEO Magglio. Etc. The EJax move was a good one & they should probably try to extend Samardjiza too. Spend some money, try to compete a little (even if you're not really trying, just get the fans to buy into it so they fill up the stadium) and add talent to the mix at the MLB level, because you can always trade that, and sometimes the best prospects you get come out of another organization. JMO.

[caulfield12]

The Cubs are trying that classical/romanticized/ideological style of total rebuilding where you tear down absolutely everything and rebuild it from scratch. In their case however they are potentially hamstringing themselves unnecessarily by doing it. The idea should be to identify all the resources you have, all the advantages, all the major disadvantages, etc. and then come up with an action plan to use your strengths to create the best new product possible in the least amount of time. With the Cubs their biggest advantage is that the fans will support the team and spend their money even if the product quality isn't very good, and their biggest disadvantage is their need for a new or greatly renovated stadium. I don't know what they are planning to do re: the stadium but I'm not sure how a s*** team helps them get one (they aren't the Marlins) and I'm also not sure why they feel it best to test the resolve of their fans (again) by intentionally putting a dogs*** team on the field and talking about "the future" all day when their fans will happily support a mediocre club that in ST is promoted as a contender. I'm not sure why they would choose to rebuild the way they are, I mean, rebuilding from the ground up starts in the FO, deals with scouting and player development, Latin America, overall organization and communication internally, etc. and then when it makes its way onto the field that starts in Rookie League and below. The ground-up rebuild doesn'tn start at the MLB level, that's just where it ends ideally in 3-5 years, so why tear that down if you don't have to? Buy talent, take advantage of your fans commitment level, trade it if you want to collect picks, etc. This isn't the NBA where the draft pick game rarely produces stars and superstars past the first couple picks; in MLB this draft routinely produces stars and superstars intermittently anywhere from 1st overall into the 2nd or 3rd rounds and sometimes later, and often the best players aren't even eligible for the amateur draft. And the draft is the only positive of losing, Rule-4 or 5, plus waiver claiming order.

 

That romantic type of approach to rebuilding only seems to work for the Rays. Don't count on that, don't even think about them. No one can be the Rays. The Royals made a trade and are a better team because of it, because they added proven veteran talent, and if they want to win a division in the next couple years they will have to continue on in that path. The O's only made noise after continuing to add vets around a couple developed prospects. Detroit's rebuild completed with the signings of IRoid & OEO Magglio. Etc. The EJax move was a good one & they should probably try to extend Samardjiza too. Spend some money, try to compete a little (even if you're not really trying, just get the fans to buy into it so they fill up the stadium) and add talent to the mix at the MLB level, because you can always trade that, and sometimes the best prospects you get come out of another organization. JMO.

 

 

They really need, at the very least, for one of those younger players like Rizzo or Jackson to become All-Stars...and probably they're going to need to trade their psuedo-superstar SS because he's going to become expensive by the time they get around to contending.

 

I still think sinking all that money into Soler was an overpay, but not as bad as the lefty they signed who will probably never challenge Quintana or Santiago's results at the major league level.

 

The stadium's a huge issue because of the revenue lost...and the fact that the Comcast deal for both the Sox and Cubs doesn't come up for renewal until 2019 (not sure about WGN). Adding that $25 million per team isn't really going to help the Cubs in any considerable way...it will actually tempt the other teams in the NL Central to spend more and become competitive, specifically the Pirates.

 

What the Cubs are doing only makes sense in the fact that the NL Central doesn't have any huge spenders, not even the Cardinals. That said, the Cards, Brewers and Reds are all pretty well-positioned right now, so they're going to have to hit the timing of this youth movement extremely accurately or they might end up having seasons that are competitive but they still end up short and leaving the overexpectant fans disappointed.

 

If you can get the starting pitching problems fixed (see Issue #1 for the Royals since the early 90's)...then you can accomplish something.

 

We shouldn't forget that all the rebuilds in baseball history, whether it's based on Mulder/Hudson/Zito, the Nationals, the Rays, 95% of the time that foundation is built around pitching.

 

The Twins are one of the exceptions, in that they produced more quality position players and their "Twins' Way" methodology of teaching them the fundamentals and watching other teams beat themselves worked, but only to an extent. And then having Liriano and Santana put them over the top, but only to the extent they could beat the A's just once and usually got crushed by the Yankees in the playoffs.

 

As far as the Tigers go, you could even say that bringing in Juan Gonzalez, even though it turned out disastrously, was the very first sign they would become competitive in the FA market.

Edited March 18, 2013 by caulfield12

[peteward]

The only reason to worry about the Cubs is we compete in the same market as them. If they suck for an extended period of time, there will be more casual fans willing contribute their money to our cause. If the opposite happens, then there will be less money to work with. IMO, this is simply a financial concern.

 

The thing is, market share is key for the White Sox. Media attention and fan enthusiasm are key to attendance numbers. Again, we need good attendance (over 2 Million/yr.) to get more revenue and be able to compete.

 

Unfortunately we have to be concerned with the Cubs when we are in the same City with the same media

and a large but finite local fan base.

A few of us have suggested improvement that the Sox can make to the stadium and surrounding area

to increase fan interest in attending games. I like the RF upper tank idea, opening up an opposite view of the loop

on the 3rd base line, and making improvements outside the park that play up on tail-gating and meandering on foot to a safe neighborhood bar (not the Bacardi in the park thing).

 

As far as the direction of the team itself, I do not profess to know what to do at this point but "at the same time"

(as Ventura says) I would like to see a commitment to become more competitive now or in the alternative, that that we resign ourselves to what is a likely going to be a mid-or lower Division finish and place more emphasis on rebuilding.

 

So here is an idea that might be heresy for some of you. We now hear that the Yankees may find out that Mark Texiera may need surgery and could be out longer than anticipated.

Would offering Dunn to them (not sure for what) be something you would consider if you were Sox GM? And how would losing Dunn impact your current 2013 win-loss prediction?

 

There are a few others that I would prioritize in trading and Jake Peavy would lead that list because of what we might get in return.

Edited March 18, 2013 by southside_hitman

[caulfield12]

The thing is, market share is key for the White Sox. Media attention and fan enthusiasm are key to attendance numbers. Again, we need good attendance (over 2 Million/yr.) to get more revenue and be able to compete.

 

Unfortunately we have to be concerned with the Cubs when we are in the same City with the same media

and a large but finite local fan base.

A few of us have suggested improvement that the Sox can make to the stadium and surrounding area

to increase fan interest in attending games. I like the RF upper tank idea, opening up an opposite view of the loop

on the 3rd base line, and making improvements outside the park that play up on tail-gating and meandering on foot to a safe neighborhood bar (not the Bacardi in the park thing).

 

As far as the direction of the team itself, I do not profess to know what to do at this point but "at the same time"

(as Ventura says) I would like to see more of a commitment to become more competitive now or to resign ourselves

to what is a likely going to be a mid-or lower Division finish and place more emphasis on rebuilding.

 

So here is another idea that might be heresy for some of you. We now hear that the Yankees may find out that Mark Texiera may need surgery and could be out longer than anticipated.

Would offering Dunn to them (not sure for what) be something you would consider if you were Sox GM? And how would losing Dunn impact your current 2013 win-loss prediction?

 

 

The same as trading Ramirez. Season over.

 

And the fact is, the Yankees want nothing to do with Dunn long-term, either.

 

They've already got to pay A-Rod and TEX a boatload of money.

 

Mostly importantly, they have Boesch, Granderson, Gardner, Ichiro and Travis Hafner to give AB's to still.

 

There's plenty of LH bats in there.