White Sox in the ESPN/Baseball Tonight Top 500

[caulfield12]

37 Chris Sale, up from 244 entering 2012

 

98 Paulie, down from 75

 

115 Jakemeister, up 126 places

 

158 Alex Rios, up 307

 

182 Danks, down a charitable 47

 

183 Dunn, up 190

 

188 Addison Reed, up 263

 

226 Matt Thornton, down 19 (charitable)

 

260 Gavin Floyd, down 68

 

266 DeAza, NR

 

273 Sexy Alexei, down 120

 

316 Viciedo, up 64

 

331 Keppinger, up 148

 

359 Crain, up 25

 

407 Beckham, down 34

 

424 Quintana, NR

 

425 Santiago, NR

 

436 N. Jones, NR

 

449 Lindstrom, NR

 

492, Flowers, NR

 

 

You have seven players improving at least 100 places, plus the last five guys that came out of nowhere in Quintana/Santiago/N. Jones/Lindstrom/Flowers.

 

Sale, Rios, Dunn, Reed and DeAza made the biggest jumps. Can Peavy and Keppinger continue their upswings at their respective ages?

 

 

The players to look for improvement from are obviously Danks, Thornton, Floyd, Ramirez, Viciedo (most would argue that way) and Beckham.

 

A lot are cautiously optimistic/hopeful Paulie can be the same hitter he was in the 1st half, but skeptical due to the age concerns.

 

 

 

SOURCE: espn.com/mlb

Edited March 29, 2013 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'm surprised Viciedo didn't move up more after hitting 25 HR's in his 1st full season. Maybe I should be surprised he was ranked 380 the previous year when he only had a few September call ups in prior to last year which would rank him better than nearly half the major league players without doing much of anything.

[caulfield12]

I'm surprised Viciedo didn't move up more after hitting 25 HR's in his 1st full season. Maybe I should be surprised he was ranked 380 the previous year when he only had a few September call ups in prior to last year which would rank him better than nearly half the major league players without doing much of anything.

 

And his defense was surprisingly decent.

 

This year is the really big year in determining what kind of player he eventually becomes.

 

Just a good/average one (due to impatience, swinging at bad pitches, struggles with inside fastballs and breaking balls out of the zone, lower OBP) or a very good/great hitter.

 

A lot of that was also based on the hype from 2010 when he tore up the minors and was a pretty key piece down the stretch, when Ozzie used him against mostly LHP.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And his defense was surprisingly decent.

 

This year is the really big year in determining what kind of player he eventually becomes.

 

Just a good/average one (due to impatience, swinging at bad pitches, struggles with inside fastballs and breaking balls out of the zone, lower OBP) or a very good/great hitter.

 

A lot of that was also based on the hype from 2010 when he tore up the minors and was a pretty key piece down the stretch, when Ozzie used him against mostly LHP.

We ( me and you) think his D was decent because he wasn't a liability and because of his arm. His assist total was the highest for a Sox left fielder in a long time. However his WAR was like a .5 which I found shockingly low and I'm guessing that's mostly due to his D (lack of range?) and/or lack of walks. Now I admit I am more old school and so maybe someone can tell me why he was deemed to be barely above replacement level. Just seems to me having a hand in throwing out 16 base runners is more valuable.

[Balta1701]

We ( me and you) think his D was decent because he wasn't a liability and because of his arm. His assist total was the highest for a Sox left fielder in a long time. However his WAR was like a .5 which I found shockingly low and I'm guessing that's mostly due to his D (lack of range?) and/or lack of walks. Now I admit I am more old school and so maybe someone can tell me why he was deemed to be barely above replacement level. Just seems to me having a hand in throwing out 16 base runners is more valuable.

His fielding was only slightly below average for that position, but the real rub for him is that those 25 HR only translated to a .744 OPS. The average LF across baseball put up a .756 OPS, so Viciedo was slightly below average with both the bat and the glove.

 

Given his age, "Slightly below average" is certainly promising, but that's why he only put up a slightly above replacement level WAR.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

His fielding was only slightly below average for that position, but the real rub for him is that those 25 HR only translated to a .744 OPS. The average LF across baseball put up a .756 OPS, so Viciedo was slightly below average with both the bat and the glove.

 

Given his age, "Slightly below average" is certainly promising, but that's why he only put up a slightly above replacement level WAR.

So does being a "slightly below average" LF mean he would be rated as much lower than an average LF if you take away, let's say, 10 of those assists ? WAR takes into account defensive metrics so how many assists would a replacement level LF have? I'm just trying to establish what an assist is worth from an outfielder. Personally I think its a very important stat though I realize the more you establish yourself as a guy with a strong accurate arm the less likely you are to be run on so assists totals will go down. But still when you establish that arm in the mind of base runners , you also prevent runners from taking the extra base because of your rep. I would think something like that is very difficult, if not impossible, to work into defensive metrics.

Edited March 29, 2013 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Marty34]

Be skeptical of defensive stats. Viciedo was a good defensive LF'er last year.

[Balta1701]

Be skeptical of defensive stats. Viciedo was a good defensive LF'er last year.

I'll go so far as to say decent, I won't say good. He's still not going to cover a lot of ground, but Rios + De Aza out there will make up for some of DV's issues with that, and he'll probably get better jumps on the ball with more experience.

[Marty34]

I'll go so far as to say decent, I won't say good. He's still not going to cover a lot of ground, but Rios + De Aza out there will make up for some of DV's issues with that, and he'll probably get better jumps on the ball with more experience.

 

His strong, accurate arm makes up for his only decent range. I'm going to say he's the best defensive LF'er the Sox have had since moving to the new park.

[Balta1701]

His strong, accurate arm makes up for his only decent range. I'm going to say he's the best defensive LF'er the Sox have had since moving to the new park.

I'll probably give that to Juan Pierre (the 2010 version, not the 2011 version), although I could be forgetting someone from the pre-Lee years.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Be skeptical of defensive stats. Viciedo was a good defensive LF'er last year.

There's just so much that can't be measured when talking about an outfielder. It's not like we know outfielders 40 yard dash speeds to measure range. And range is predicated on good reads and routes. Even if you have good speed your route can be bad or your reads can be bad or both can be bad. How the heck do you measure routes and reads ? A slower outfielder with good reads and routes can be a more valuable outfielder than a speedy one with poor reads and routes. Preparation is also a key to an outfielder reads and routes since the ball slices differently off the bat from LH and RH hitters and a heady outfielder has to keep that in mind every pitch. Even outfielders with good speed ,routes and reads can be fooled by big swings and the sound of the ball off the bat. Breaking back one step or even a slight hesitation can be the difference between a hit and an out.

[witesoxfan]

He was, admittedly, before my time, but I have to imagine Raines was pretty damn good in LF too

[caulfield12]

Pods his second time around was pretty good, too.

 

As long as he wasn't playing CF.

 

 

Raines wasn't very good...decent, but nothing to write home about.

 

 

[Marty34]

He was, admittedly, before my time, but I have to imagine Raines was pretty damn good in LF too

 

I'd put Raines as the second-worst LFer ahead of only Sax. He played about a step or two in front of the track everything dropped in front of him.

[caulfield12]

Carlos Lee was REALLY bad.

 

Maybe not as bad as Sax, but worse than Raines.

[Chicago White Sox]

Be skeptical of defensive stats. Viciedo was a good defensive LF'er last year.

Agree with both points.

[caulfield12]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-sp...0,5825854.story

 

9 Questions Facing the White Sox (as regular season begins)

[balfanman]

So does being a "slightly below average" LF mean he would be rated as much lower than an average LF if you take away, let's say, 10 of those assists ? WAR takes into account defensive metrics so how many assists would a replacement level LF have? I'm just trying to establish what an assist is worth from an outfielder. Personally I think its a very important stat though I realize the more you establish yourself as a guy with a strong accurate arm the less likely you are to be run on so assists totals will go down. But still when you establish that arm in the mind of base runners , you also prevent runners from taking the extra base because of your rep. I would think something like that is very difficult, if not impossible, to work into defensive metrics.

 

It seems to me that I have heard before that having a lot of assists for an outfielder is actually a negative thing. If an outfielder has a lot of assists it's a sign that runners don't fear them very much so they constantly try to take an extra base. Don't most outfielders with good arms actually have few assists due to runners being afraid to run on them?

[witesoxfan]

It seems to me that I have heard before that having a lot of assists for an outfielder is actually a negative thing. If an outfielder has a lot of assists it's a sign that runners don't fear them very much so they constantly try to take an extra base. Don't most outfielders with good arms actually have few assists due to runners being afraid to run on them?

 

After scouting reports have been established, this is typically the case. I strongly doubt Viciedo will put up the same number this year.

[Balta1701]

After scouting reports have been established, this is typically the case. I strongly doubt Viciedo will put up the same number this year.

In some ways that's a good thing, because guys won't take bases even if they could have.