Desperate times call for...three bold moves

[Marty34]

Put the entire roster through another intensive fundamentals based spring training. They don't sleep until they hit a cutoff man. That got the team to 85 wins last year on its own.

 

Find a bat that Marty doesn't want (since Marty thought adding Hamilton would have been a great idea last offseason).

 

Look, you had this team winning 90 games before the season so I can understand why you are holding on to this fundamentals angle, but quite simply this team doesn't have the horses.

[Balta1701]

Look, you had this team winning 90 games before the season so I can understand why you are holding on to this fundamentals angle, but quite simply this team doesn't have the horses.

And so the solution is to get one of the horses they do have...because we like losing!

[Marty34]

And so the solution is to get one of the horses they do have...because we like losing!

 

Because he's on the wrong side of 30 and been in steady decline.

[Balta1701]

Because he's on the wrong side of 30 and been in steady decline.

Which is why you kept suggesting Josh Hamilton last offseason.

[Marty34]

Which is why you kept suggesting Josh Hamilton last offseason.

 

I suggested if you are not going to rebuild, add. No way they were going to sign Hamilton, but standing pat was just as silly.

[The Ultimate Champion]

If we can acquire a young bat worth the playing time (and if would probably have to come at the expense of something we like) then you just eat Dunn's contract and let him go.

[chitownsportsfan]

Yea as Balta noted these "bold moved" are nothing but crazy. Let's see, the defense stinks so lets trade the best defender on the team so we can move a guy who hasn't played there full time since he was in Birmingham 5 years ago and then, we can put the excellent (sarcasm alert) Keppinger at 2B full time!

 

Do you know how god awful that infield defense would be? Gillaspie/Beckham/Keppinger/Dunn/Konerko. There are softball teams in Chicago that have better infields than that. That's only a slight exaggeration.

 

Furthermore, if the Sox are having a fire sale with "bold moves" the last thing they want back is sunk costs like Upton. The Sox would be much better off just working out a buyout with Dunn rather than taking on salary back in any trade.

 

You want to bench a 24 year old Viciedo (who, by the way, has the 3rd highest OPS on the team) so you can bring in Justin Upton? That just doesn't make any sense either.

 

Fairly paid, still usefull players like Ramirez and Viciedo are hardly part of the problem. The big problems on this team are, in order: Dunn, Keppinger, Flowers. Those guys are worse than replacement and in Dunn's case, he's eating up over 20% of the payroll.

 

Any sort of "bold move" starts with committing to a complete rebuilding. That means working out a buyout or trade with Dunn (eating most of his salary), and then trading the few assets the team has, maybe packaging them together to get the most value. That means Konerko, Peavy, Crain, Thornton, Lindstron should all be on the block.

 

Rios and De Aza should be available in the right deal. Everyone is tradeable in the right deal on a team this bad, but to suggest that the first player off the island should be Ramirez is absurd.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Yea as Balta noted these "bold moved" are nothing but crazy. Let's see, the defense stinks so lets trade the best defender on the team so we can move a guy who hasn't played there full time since he was in Birmingham 5 years ago and then, we can put the excellent (sarcasm alert) Keppinger at 2B full time!

 

Do you know how god awful that infield defense would be? Gillaspie/Beckham/Keppinger/Dunn/Konerko. There are softball teams in Chicago that have better infields than that. That's only a slight exaggeration.

 

Furthermore, if the Sox are having a fire sale with "bold moves" the last thing they want back is sunk costs like Upton. The Sox would be much better off just working out a buyout with Dunn rather than taking on salary back in any trade.

 

You want to bench a 24 year old Viciedo (who, by the way, has the 3rd highest OPS on the team) so you can bring in Justin Upton? That just doesn't make any sense either.

 

Fairly paid, still usefull players like Ramirez and Viciedo are hardly part of the problem. The big problems on this team are, in order: Dunn, Keppinger, Flowers. Those guys are worse than replacement and in Dunn's case, he's eating up over 20% of the payroll.

 

Any sort of "bold move" starts with committing to a complete rebuilding. That means working out a buyout or trade with Dunn (eating most of his salary), and then trading the few assets the team has, maybe packaging them together to get the most value. That means Konerko, Peavy, Crain, Thornton, Lindstron should all be on the block.

 

Rios and De Aza should be available in the right deal. Everyone is tradeable in the right deal on a team this bad, but to suggest that the first player off the island should be Ramirez is absurd.

I agree with this post except for the part about the Keppinger/Beckham/Dunn/etc. infield. Paulie is not in the future plans, Dunn is not in the future plans, Keppinger isn't in the future plans as anything but a UT player, if at all, and Beckham only sticks around if he comes back healthy tearing the cover off the ball because he's not getting arb from us otherwise. So who cares about that infield this year? Alexei should be traded if possible because he's very close to becoming a bad contract. Bad contracts aren't good, whether you are rebuilding, contending, or otherwise.

[greg775]

Like Dick Allen and others said, nobody would take Dunn off our hands under any circumstances except the Sox paying every penny of his salary. I bet if a team could get Dunn for free, that team would send him to Triple A for a month and see if they can reinvent his stance, etc.

[chitownsportsfan]

Like Dick Allen and others said, nobody would take Dunn off our hands under any circumstances except the Sox paying every penny of his salary. I bet if a team could get Dunn for free, that team would send him to Triple A for a month and see if they can reinvent his stance, etc.

 

nailed it.

[The Ginger Kid]

If you're not going to release Dunn, at the very least see if he'll go to the minors to work out whatever it is that's plagued him for 3 years.

[elrockinMT]

The team has a real strength at pitching. We are solid with gld glove fielders at SS and 2B. We need a 1Bman only because Konerko will retire soon. We need a 3Bman. We seem to be set pretty good in LF and if we decide to sign Rios again then we are good at RF. CF could be iffy. De Aza ain't bad but we might upgrade. Catching is an issue. Now we do have some good looking OF prospects in the minors. How far away are they? Two years maybe? This team ain't bad now but we do need a resurgent Dunn and see if Gillaspie can perform at 3B. Now that one takes a bit of time. With Adam Dunn you just don't know if the time has run out. I hope not but he just hasn't shown anything

Edited May 12, 2013 by elrockinMT

[Balta1701]

The team has a real strength at pitching. We are solid with gld glove fielders at SS and 2B. We need a 1Bman only because Konerko will retire soon. We need a 3Bman. We seem to bed set pretty good in LF and if we decide to sign Rios again then we are good at RF. CF could be iffy. De Aza ain't bad but we might upgrade. Catching is an issue. Now we ahave some good looking OF propsects in the minors. How far away are they? Two years maybe? This team ain't bad now but we do need a resurgent Dunn and see if Gillaspie can perform at 3B. Now that one takes a bit of time. With Adam Dunn you just don't know if the time has run out. I hope not but he just hasn't shown anything

Right now, expecting the Sox to get an OF prospect ready to come up in 2 years is somewhat optimistic.

[caulfield12]

Yea as Balta noted these "bold moved" are nothing but crazy. Let's see, the defense stinks so lets trade the best defender on the team so we can move a guy who hasn't played there full time since he was in Birmingham 5 years ago and then, we can put the excellent (sarcasm alert) Keppinger at 2B full time! (Ummm...no, eventually Sanchez/Semien/trade acquisition would go there...where did anyone ever say they want Keppinger playing full-time at ANY position?)

 

Do you know how god awful that infield defense would be? Gillaspie/Beckham/Keppinger/Dunn/Konerko. There are softball teams in Chicago that have better infields than that. That's only a slight exaggeration. (Konerko is obviously not part of this team's future.)

 

Furthermore, if the Sox are having a fire sale with "bold moves" the last thing they want back is sunk costs like Upton. The Sox would be much better off just working out a buyout with Dunn rather than taking on salary back in any trade.(When's the last time this happened with guaranteed contracts in MLB? We're not talking NFL fantasy world, the MLB Player's Union and agents would KILL Dunn for doing that.)

 

You want to bench a 24 year old Viciedo (who, by the way, has the 3rd highest OPS on the team) so you can bring in Justin Upton? That just doesn't make any sense either.(Long term, you trade DeAza when you can get something back in return, and reinsert Viciedo because it's never a good idea to make someone a full-time DH at that age. For the remainder of this season, it's fine. He goes to 1B as soon as Konerko retires/is traded.)

 

Fairly paid, still usefull players like Ramirez and Viciedo are hardly part of the problem. The big problems on this team are, in order: Dunn, Keppinger, Flowers. Those guys are worse than replacement and in Dunn's case, he's eating up over 20% of the payroll. ($15 million is not 20% of $108 million)

 

Any sort of "bold move" starts with committing to a complete rebuilding. That means working out a buyout or trade with Dunn (eating most of his salary), and then trading the few assets the team has, maybe packaging them together to get the most value. That means Konerko, Peavy, Crain, Thornton, Lindstron should all be on the block. (That's exactly what I am proposing, except the White Sox are too stubborn to give away more than $5 million, it has NEVER happened, EVER. Who is Lindstron?)

 

Rios and De Aza should be available in the right deal. Everyone is tradeable in the right deal on a team this bad, but to suggest that the first player off the island should be Ramirez is absurd. (Is Ramirez going to have more value in 2014 or 2015? What about his declining OPS and inconsistent defense makes you believe that?)

[caulfield12]

The team has a real strength at pitching. We are solid with gld glove fielders at SS and 2B. We need a 1Bman only because Konerko will retire soon. We need a 3Bman. We seem to be set pretty good in LF and if we decide to sign Rios again then we are good at RF. CF could be iffy. De Aza ain't bad but we might upgrade. Catching is an issue. Now we do have some good looking OF prospects in the minors. How far away are they? Two years maybe? This team ain't bad now but we do need a resurgent Dunn and see if Gillaspie can perform at 3B. Now that one takes a bit of time. With Adam Dunn you just don't know if the time has run out. I hope not but he just hasn't shown anything

 

If Beckham hits, we're solid/he's solid as a starter. That's whether he's at SS or 2B, doesn't matter...he has to be more than a 625 or 650 hitter with the offensive holes in other places.

 

DeAza, with his defensive lapses and low OBP, is far from "set."

 

Good looking prospects doesn't equal results at the major league level...in fact, there's nothing in recent Sox development history to believe ANY of them will become successful. The last two that even stuck at the big league level are Ryan Sweeney and Chris Young.

 

Finally, we're DOUBTFUL to give Rios ANY type of long-term extension at his age.

We hold a 2015 option on him, but the odds, at the end of the next two seasons....of still wanting him around when you're totally revamping/rebuilding your offense and looking to get younger....?

Plus, his defense this season has been almost as lackluster as his CF play in 2011.

Edited May 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Again we repeat: Viciedo's biggest asset in the field is his arm. If you put him at 1b, you lose what is actually an asset. If he's average at getting to the ball, or becomes that with time, then his arm will make him an effective OF.

[caulfield12]

Again we repeat: Viciedo's biggest asset in the field is his arm. If you put him at 1b, you lose what is actually an asset. If he's average at getting to the ball, or becomes that with time, then his arm will make him an effective OF.

 

 

And again, I repeat, DeAza is not part of the long-term picture and Viciedo will go back there as soon as a trade that nets us something productive in return is possible.

 

With a sub 300 OPS and striking out as much as he has and playing close to the worst LF in the majors...that's not in the cards right now. However, without a escalating contract and still relatively close to his prime, there's no DIRE need to trade or dump him ASAP unless there's a suitable replacement.

Edited May 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[SI1020]

The team has a real strength at pitching. We are solid with gld glove fielders at SS and 2B. We need a 1Bman only because Konerko will retire soon. We need a 3Bman. We seem to be set pretty good in LF and if we decide to sign Rios again then we are good at RF. CF could be iffy. De Aza ain't bad but we might upgrade. Catching is an issue. Now we do have some good looking OF prospects in the minors. How far away are they? Two years maybe? This team ain't bad now but we do need a resurgent Dunn and see if Gillaspie can perform at 3B. Now that one takes a bit of time. With Adam Dunn you just don't know if the time has run out. I hope not but he just hasn't shown anything

I think it's pretty obvious that at the very least his time has run out in Chicago. How many more ABs of this misery do we need?

 

[LittleHurt05]

If the Braves traded for Adam Dunn right now, their GM should be fired, tarred, & feathered and forever banned from all levels of baseball.

[Baron]

It's brutal watching this team now, so I really don't care if we are even worse if it means a better future.

 

Thing is how long in the future? A few years or will we be stuck in the darkness for a long period of time? Are you prepared to sit through maybe many years of just absolute hell?

 

I bet most people on here are not.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Baron

[The Ultimate Champion]

Sox should trade Dunn to the city of Detroit for Mike Tyson's old house. Both are hanging around doing nothing, but at least Southpaw can f*** around in the tiger cage.

Edited May 13, 2013 by The Ultimate Champion

[southsider2k5]

Thing is how long in the future? A few years or will we be stuck in the darkness for a long period of time? Are you prepared to sit through maybe many years of just absolute hell?

 

I bet most people on here are not.

 

A team full of Viciedo's and Flowers would be just what the Soxtalk ordered.

[caulfield12]

Thing is how long in the future? A few years or will we be stuck in the darkness for a long period of time? Are you prepared to sit through maybe many years of just absolute hell?

 

I bet most people on here are not.

 

 

If they wanted to do that, they would make a Marlins-esque move and trade Sale for the best available package.

 

That's not happening.

[Baron]

If they wanted to do that, they would make a Marlins-esque move and trade Sale for the best available package.

 

That's not happening.

 

The point is nobody knows how long a rebuild will take. It could take a short amount of time or a long time.

[caulfield12]

While I appreciate a creative effort to rid the White Sox of Dunn, it just doesn't seem possible. Plus, as many posters have pointed out, trading BJ Upton probably wouldn't bode well with their star Justin. Tieing in the fact that BJ Upton was traded for ADAM DUNN, and the GM probably loses his job.

 

 

OKAY. Find someone.

 

A-Rod

Carl Crawford

Alphonso Soriano but Cubs wouldn't put Dunn in OF, Rizzo set for 1B

Teixeira

Pujols

A-Gonzalez

Brian Roberts

Juan Uribe

Vernon Wells

Michael Young

Jeff Francouer

Dan Uggla

Andre Ethier

Jayson Werth

Ryan Howard

 

 

PITCHERS

Papelbon

Marmol

Brandon League

Johan Santana

John Lackey

Barry Zito

Kevin Correia

Ricky Romero

Mark Buehrle

Lincecum

Heath Bell

Jonathan Broxton

CJ Wilson

Josh Beckett