I never said he was the difference? You keep putting that in my mouth.

 

Which means the difference is "Kansas" and not the coach.

Nice win for UConn on the road at Memphis last night. DeAndre Daniels really stepped up

Forty years ago today, UCLA won their 88th consecutive game with a 66-44 win over Iowa. That same day, one of my father's co-workers offered him a ticket to that Saturday's UCLA @ Notre Dame game because his wife didn't want him driving over 1½ hours to South Bend in the middle of winter.

Forty years ago today, UCLA won their 88th consecutive game with a 66-44 win over Iowa. That same day, one of my father's co-workers offered him a ticket to that Saturday's UCLA @ Notre Dame game because his wife didn't want him driving over 1½ hours to South Bend in the middle of winter.

Did he take it?

Why was Self's record 3 years at Illinois better than his first 3 years at Kansas? And the recruits were coming. The best 3 year stint for an Illinois head coach was Bruce Weber. It was when he had Self's players. The second best was Self in his 3 years. You build on the success. Charlie Villenueva was a top 5 recruit, and that was when guys went pro. LeBron was #1, Luol Deng was #2.

 

Do you really think Cliff Alexander knows anything about Kansas basketball history. Did Derek Rose go to Memphis because of their tremendous history as an NCAA heavyweight? According to Rivals, in 2003, the year Self left, Kansas had the 8th best recruits, Illinois was at #19 after losing Villenueva, a top 5 guy.

 

And if it is all about the school and not the coach, why do many players want out if the coach is canned or moving elsewhere?

 

Self's first 3 years at Illinois were so good because something got in the water in Peoria and tons of basketball talent was produced that Kruger convinced to play at Illinois. Weber's first 3 years were his best because Self is a way better recruiter than Weber is.

 

No one is saying it's all about the school. It's just that the school does matter, and it's easier for the same coach to recruit at Kansas than it is at Illinois. If it's all about the coach, then why didn't Self get top 10 recruiting classes at Tulsa?

Did he take it?

 

Yes he did.

Yes he did.

 

Who won the game?

His value is in something you don't really measure and has been one of if not the best defensive player in the country his entire career. That's the sum of his value. Great complimentary piece. With a team that can't score his value is quickly diminished since offensively he is below average.

 

That's nice that he is great defensively but he isn't a top 10 or even top 20-30 player in the country like much of the media builds him up to be. I mean Dan Dakich says he would take Craft over every other player in the country which is so laughably stupid it makes me question everything else Dakich says about basketball.

 

I also find it funny that for all the talk about what a hard worker Craft is (and he does play exceptionally hard) that his offensive game hasn't really improved at all from his freshman year to his senior year.

Which means the difference is "Kansas" and not the coach.

I'm saying it's both. It doesn't have to be black and white. Kansas I imagine will struggle mightily if they higher the wrong guy compared to other top schools.

That's nice that he is great defensively but he isn't a top 10 or even top 20-30 player in the country like much of the media builds him up to be. I mean Dan Dakich says he would take Craft over every other player in the country which is so laughably stupid it makes me question everything else Dakich says about basketball.

 

I also find it funny that for all the talk about what a hard worker Craft is (and he does play exceptionally hard) that his offensive game hasn't really improved at all from his freshman year to his senior year.

 

But he's not exactly a liability out there either. He's an A or A+ defender and effort guy, and an average at best offensive guy. He still makes plays (see the MSU comeback this year, the shot in the tourney last year, etc), i'm sure he's a great leader, he can shut down great players, and he's incredibly smart at the game.

 

Taking him first on your team would be my choice IF you also could guarantee me some skilled offensive guys to go around him. Having a smart PG in college basketball is basically the key to being consistently good. And that's what Craft has given OSU for a number of years.

 

 

 

Ugh, I feel dirty now.

I'm saying it's both. It doesn't have to be black and white. Kansas I imagine will struggle mightily if they higher the wrong guy compared to other top schools.

 

See also, Mike Davis at Indiana, Bruce Weber at Illinois, Tubby at Kentucky, Matt Doherty at UNC, etc.

 

But really those blue blood programs like Kentucky/Kansas/UNC are only down for so long. That's where the "school" becomes so important.

I'm saying it's both. It doesn't have to be black and white. Kansas I imagine will struggle mightily if they higher the wrong guy compared to other top schools.

 

i think at this point, the Kansas train is running full speed downhill. A bad hire for them would be very unlikely, if that job becomes available then only the elite top head coaches would be considered for the job.

 

They arent going from Roy Williams -> Bill Self -> MAC coach that got hot in the tournament.

See also, Mike Davis at Indiana, Bruce Weber at Illinois, Tubby at Kentucky, Matt Doherty at UNC, etc.

 

But really those blue blood programs like Kentucky/Kansas/UNC are only down for so long. That's where the "school" becomes so important.

It becomes important because look at who they can hire. They don't get the hot MAC coach to take over.

It becomes important because look at who they can hire. They don't get the hot MAC coach to take over.

 

Exactly. I forgot Gillespie at Kentucky too. Hiring miscues and short-term issues are quickly solved by hiring the best coach available.

It becomes important because look at who they can hire. They don't get the hot MAC coach to take over.

 

Again, this is the difference between a Kansas and an Illinois.

 

Again, this is the difference between a Kansas and an Illinois.

 

I agree with that, but if you already have the coach that Kansas wants, you are probably in good shape. And my stance is the coach makes a difference.

 

IMO, coaches have a fondness for the Blue Blood schools, not necessarily the players. Many believe the pinnacle of their profession is Kansas, Kentucky, UNC. If Kansas sells itself to players, there really would be no need to pay big money to a big name coach.

 

Self at Illinois for a 20-25 year run would have been happy times for Illini fans. Probably a lot like Izzo in East Lansing. Multiple Final Fours.

Edited January 17, 201412 yr by Dick Allen

I agree with that, but if you already have the coach that Kansas wants, you are probably in good shape. And my stance is the coach makes a difference.

 

IMO, coaches have a fondness for the Blue Blood schools, not necessarily the players. Many believe the pinnacle of their profession is Kansas, Kentucky, UNC. If Kansas sells itself to players, there really would be no need to pay big money to a big name coach.

 

Self at Illinois for a 20-25 year run would have been happy times for Illini fans. Probably a lot like Izzo in East Lansing. Multiple Final Fours.

 

And championships. He would have made Illinois a perennial power given the state of the program while he was there and his ability to recruit. Sigh.

Edited January 17, 201412 yr by Jenksismybitch

Cliff's mom on his decision. Doesn't mention Kansas tradition:

 

Added his mother, Latillia Alexander: “John Groce is great. I know, most definitely, John Groce would care for him on and off the court, but I think (Kansas coach) Bill Self will get him to the next level.”

 

 

Cliff's mom on his decision. Doesn't mention Kansas tradition:

 

Added his mother, Latillia Alexander: “John Groce is great. I know, most definitely, John Groce would care for him on and off the court, but I think (Kansas coach) Bill Self will get him to the next level.”

 

A guy like Cliff isn't going to "develop" in his one year. He's a top 5 pick unless he gets injured.

 

A guy like Cliff isn't going to "develop" in his one year. He's a top 5 pick unless he gets injured.

And Kansas gets much more exposure than Illinois.

Wow, UNC.

 

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/...chancellor-says

Cliff's mom on his decision. Doesn't mention Kansas tradition:

 

Added his mother, Latillia Alexander: “John Groce is great. I know, most definitely, John Groce would care for him on and off the court, but I think (Kansas coach) Bill Self will get him to the next level.”

 

OMG, it is missing out of one sentence from one person which disproves everything!

And Kansas gets much more exposure than Illinois.

I think that has leveled off, especially for a Chicago guy. With the Big Ten Network and ESPN, Cliff's friends and family could catch just about every one of his games on TV, and as for pro scouts, they will be at every game he plays regardless.

 

The Big Ten might suck right now on the gridiron, but they are a top of the line baskeball conference.

Illinois is +4 against MSU. Payne won't play and MSU is a bit banged up, but the way the Illini have been playing lately it looks too easy. Maybe this is the game that opens up the door for tournament talk again.

As soon as Indiana got close, the refs started to let them play more physical.