Conger might be the right piece to get back alongside Bourjos. He wouldn't raise the price too much but could offer a good deal of value to us, as he will be a huge marginal gain whether he pans out or not

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2013/10/t...n-baseball.html This guy tries to rate catchers on runs saved and has Conger 10th among all catchers and that's with only 92 games played. Catcher's are probably the hardest player defensively to quantify.

http://www.detroittigertales.com/2013/10/t...n-baseball.html This guy tries to rate catchers on runs saved and has Conger 10th among all catchers and that's with only 92 games played. Catcher's are probably the hardest player defensively to quantify.

Even that guy had him negative in everything but pitch framing. He had him as the worst throwing catcher. I don't think his arm is that bad, but he has a big issue with accuracy, and it could be mental.

Nope, not a huge fan of Bourjos either. He'd be an interesting buy low guy perhaps, but I don't want him if he's going to be a key piece back in a Quintana or Santiago trade. He's just not a good fit for us offensively.

 

Ok, fair enough then.

Even that guy had him negative in everything but pitch framing. He had him as the worst throwing catcher. I don't think his arm is that bad, but he has a big issue with accuracy, and it could be mental.

That was earlier in the season. I saw something for around June or July that had him throwing out 38% which isn't too bad. Finished at 24% Phegley and Flowerrs both did pretty good in that respect also. But I did not see any great receiving skills from them . Both seemed to have a lot of passed balls. Haven't checked all that yet. The more I look the harder it is to figure out how good a catcher really is defensively.

Edited October 30, 201312 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I will say that we are becoming remarkably right-handed, which is one issue with the main potentially-moved guys on the Angels

 

Another reason why Parra is a better fit, although he also does not post great OBP numbers either.

That was earlier in the season. I saw something for around June or July that had him throwing out 38% which isn't too bad.

He finished throwing out 24%. If he can keep getting balls called strikes, he has defensive value. If not, he is not a positive defensive player.

Another reason why Parra is a better fit, although he also does not post great OBP numbers either.

 

I imagine he's a significantly more difficult get and isn't going to be the kind of CF that Bourjos is - which would be fine if we weren't chock full of corner OF. Doesn't hit real well either

Edited October 30, 201312 yr by Jake

Conger 1 passed ball in 535 innings. Phegley 8 passed balls in 516 innings. Flowers 8 passed balls in 687.2 innings caught.

I'm happy to have Conger, though I'm not sure what price I'm willing to pay. Sign me up for Bourjos+Conger for Santiago though

I imagine he's a significantly more difficult get and isn't going to be the kind of CF that Bourjos is - which would be fine if we weren't chock full of corner OF. Doesn't hit real well either

 

Although the majority of his gold gloves were earned in RF, his sporadic time in CF have yielded very good results as well, just as good as Bourjos'.

 

Plus....I'm not sure Bourjos can throw like this....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...-160339569.html

 

Or this...

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=15852977&topic_id=0

 

or make crazy stops like this...

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2013/06/11/v...parra-did-what/

 

I'd be somewhat interested in Bourjos. Pass on Trumbo and definitely not Conger.

I'm happy to have Conger, though I'm not sure what price I'm willing to pay. Sign me up for Bourjos+Conger for Santiago though

 

Yeah, keep Q's name out of this one.

I honestly can't decide which player I think is more valuable

Marcus Semien will have a .600 OBP and that will be enough for everyone

I initially read that as OPS. My reaction was much, much different.

I honestly can't decide which player I think is more valuable

Between Parra and Bourjos ? I'd have to go with Parra based on his LH and arm and most recent success. He doesn't hit lefties well at all but against righties he's close to .300. Plus I like guys who hit a lot of doubles, keeps double plays at a minimum.

I do not want either of them on the Sox, LA can keep them both.

Although the majority of his gold gloves were earned in RF, his sporadic time in CF have yielded very good results as well, just as good as Bourjos'.

 

Plus....I'm not sure Bourjos can throw like this....

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...-160339569.html

 

Or this...

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=15852977&topic_id=0

 

or make crazy stops like this...

 

http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2013/06/11/v...parra-did-what/

 

OK, now you're taking your obsession too far because literally anything Parra can do, Bourjos can do better. There's no point in watching the videos.

I do not want either of them on the Sox, LA can keep them both.

 

Seconded.

 

I don't think either of these players have what Hahn would be looking for to improve the team.

 

Trumbo possibly would have been if we hadn't just signed Abreu.

 

Bourjous, no thanks, too many downsides and I don't think he is any better than Jordan Danks that we already have.

Seconded.

 

I don't think either of these players have what Hahn would be looking for to improve the team.

 

Trumbo possibly would have been if we hadn't just signed Abreu.

 

Bourjous, no thanks, too many downsides and I don't think he is any better than Jordan Danks that we already have.

 

Peter Bourjos is about two to three times the player that Jordan Danks is. Peter Bourjos is a guy you talk about as a potential multiple gold glover and a 10/40 or 20/40 guy. Jordan Danks is a AAAA or bench player.

 

Peter Bourjos's ceiling is probably a .300/.350/.475/.825 type season, while his low is probably .250/.300/.375/.675, all the while contributing great base running and incredible defense. Danks' ceiling is probably .250/.325/.475/.800, his floor .225/.275/.325 without the stolen bases and gold glove defense.

 

Here's a simple test...would you trade Jordan Danks for Peter Bourjos? Answer is an obvious yes. If you had him, would you trade Bourjos for Danks? That is really an obvious no.

 

 

Peter Bourjos is about two to three times the player that Jordan Danks is. Peter Bourjos is a guy you talk about as a potential multiple gold glover and a 10/40 or 20/40 guy. Jordan Danks is a AAAA or bench player.

 

Peter Bourjos's ceiling is probably a .300/.350/.475/.825 type season, while his low is probably .250/.300/.375/.675, all the while contributing great base running and incredible defense. Danks' ceiling is probably .250/.325/.475/.800, his floor .225/.275/.325 without the stolen bases and gold glove defense.

 

Here's a simple test...would you trade Jordan Danks for Peter Bourjos? Answer is an obvious yes. If you had him, would you trade Bourjos for Danks? That is really an obvious no.

 

I think you overestimate Bourjous.

 

A guy who on a 162 game average bats .251 with 11 homers 41 RBI's and 19 Stolen Bases. 29 Walks and 115 strikeouts.

 

Compared to Danks who on a 162 game average bats .229 with 8 homers, 20 RBI's and 13 stolen bases. With 30 walks and 92 strikeouts.

 

Not that much of a difference, certainly not someone that you'd give up Quintana or Santiago for.

 

I'd keep Danks and see who else is available.

 

Not Bourjous though, not a .251 hitter with 115 strikeouts.

 

Just as a side note, the much aligned De Aza has a 162 game average of .274, 11 homers, 57 RBI's and 24 stolen bases with 50 walks and 147 strikeouts.

 

I don't see where Bourjous is an upgrade on what we have.

Between Parra and Bourjos ? I'd have to go with Parra based on his LH and arm and most recent success. He doesn't hit lefties well at all but against righties he's close to .300. Plus I like guys who hit a lot of doubles, keeps double plays at a minimum.

 

No, I mean Q and Santiago. Q has a very nice track record and looks like a really good bet to be a 4 win player over the next several years at a good price. Hector, on the other hand, may be a guy that just gives you okay overall production in the next year or two...but also has that big, big potential to strike out 200 guys with his stuff. Hector is a tweak or two away from being dominant

No, I mean Q and Santiago. Q has a very nice track record and looks like a really good bet to be a 4 win player over the next several years at a good price. Hector, on the other hand, may be a guy that just gives you okay overall production in the next year or two...but also has that big, big potential to strike out 200 guys with his stuff. Hector is a tweak or two away from being dominant

 

I think Santiago's problems are between the ears. I have a feeling we are watching a Javy Vazquez or Edwin Jackson in the making. Big stuff, cut peripherals, but frustratingly inconsistent and untrustable.

 

I think Santiago's problems are between the ears. I have a feeling we are watching a Javy Vazquez or Edwin Jackson in the making. Big stuff, cut peripherals, but frustratingly inconsistent and untrustable.

 

I'm not sure. You might be right. His disproportionately worse production out of the pen is understandable, but you usually don't see that at this level. Hector has had a weird developmental arc, though, so it's tough to say what he should or should not be doing.

In the minors, Bourjos was a .291/.345/.455/.799 hitter. He never repeated a level, peaking at .303/.357/.493/.850 in AAA.

In the minors, Danks was a .267/.354/.423/.777 hitter. He was in his 4th season in AAA when the Sox called him up last year.

 

Bourjos is also a far, far better defender. Danks is generally rated as average to above average. Bourjos is rated incredible to best defensive outfielder in the game.

 

Yes, I would give up valuable pieces for Bourjos, not a doubt in my mind. He'd be a terrible leadoff hitter, but anywhere between 7th and 9th in the order would be awesome. He has the ceiling of an All-Star player.

In the minors, Bourjos was a .291/.345/.455/.799 hitter. He never repeated a level, peaking at .303/.357/.493/.850 in AAA.

In the minors, Danks was a .267/.354/.423/.777 hitter. He was in his 4th season in AAA when the Sox called him up last year.

 

Bourjos is also a far, far better defender. Danks is generally rated as average to above average. Bourjos is rated incredible to best defensive outfielder in the game.

 

Yes, I would give up valuable pieces for Bourjos, not a doubt in my mind. He'd be a terrible leadoff hitter, but anywhere between 7th and 9th in the order would be awesome. He has the ceiling of an All-Star player.

 

This ^

 

We'd all like someone better, but you can only acquire what is actually available. Bourjos is a substantial upgrade for us in CF, gives us options for our OF going forward (could De Aza or Viciedo be traded? Certainly as complementary pieces in a deal), and, most important of all, he has the elusive combination of upside and team control, which is what the 99 loss Sox need more than anything right now.

 

Bourjos has been relegated to a part-time role by Scioscia because of Trout, Trumbo, and Hamilton (and also Vernon Wells for a while rofl), it's not unreasonable to believe he can be better with consistent playing time -- indeed, his best seasons have come as a starter.