witesoxfan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ May 1, 2014 -> 10:38 AM) Hey Chisoxfn ..... how is it hanging ????? Been well ? in Tanaka , the offer for him, I believe was nothing but a token one. proof is when he WENT over for Jose I really don't believe it was a token offer. I honestly believe the Sox had the 2nd best contract out to Tanaka in the form of a 6/$120 deal with an opt out after 4 years, but the Yankees offered an additional year. Nothing the Sox could do in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (LDF @ May 1, 2014 -> 10:52 AM) b/c of over paying ..... we have hole (s) that need to be fix. a. outfield b. pitching a #2 and #4/5 c. we don't have a large amount of prospects to fix everything. A. Eaton, Garcia, Viciedo, De Aza, Danks B. Quintana, then agreed C. Somewhat agreed- we do have some good talent in Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, Matt Davidson, Chris Beck, etc. Edited May 1, 2014 by Jose Abreu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 1, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) I really don't believe it was a token offer. I honestly believe the Sox had the 2nd best contract out to Tanaka in the form of a 6/$120 deal with an opt out after 4 years, but the Yankees offered an additional year. Nothing the Sox could do in that situation. The biggest number I saw was 6/100, and even that was shrouded in mystery. Have you got a link? I have been curious what our offer was ever since he signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 1, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) I really don't believe it was a token offer. I honestly believe the Sox had the 2nd best contract out to Tanaka in the form of a 6/$120 deal with an opt out after 4 years, but the Yankees offered an additional year. Nothing the Sox could do in that situation. then I stand corrected... and happily so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 1, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) A. Eaton, Garcia, Viciedo, De Aza, Danks B. Quintana, then agreed C. Somewhat agreed- we do have some good talent in Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, Matt Davidson, Chris Beck, etc. with ref to a. are we talking this yr or next ? c. I am a fan of may and engel as well great speed with Johnson. also if Michalczewski the 3b prospect, can hit and 3b is manned .... why not him in the outfield mix as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 04:05 PM) The biggest number I saw was 6/100, and even that was shrouded in mystery. Have you got a link? I have been curious what our offer was ever since he signed. I thought I read somewhere it was the 3 or 4 best offer ..... but what the hell I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ May 1, 2014 -> 11:12 AM) with ref to a. are we talking this yr or next ? c. I am a fan of may and engel as well great speed with Johnson. also if Michalczewski the 3b prospect, can hit and 3b is manned .... why not him in the outfield mix as well? I included Garcia because I thought you were talking about the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ May 1, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) I included Garcia because I thought you were talking about the next few years. thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) The biggest number I saw was 6/100, and even that was shrouded in mystery. Have you got a link? I have been curious what our offer was ever since he signed. No, total guess/gut feeling/reading between the lines. The Sox weren't listed often as a potential suitor because they wouldn't have been a sexy pick, but they were barely mentioned on Abreu as well. Rock indicated how badly they wanted the guy and that they felt good and confident throughout the process and basically I took that as they felt they had what should have been the best (ie largest) contract out there. Everyone and their mothers knew $100 million was never going to be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (LDF @ May 1, 2014 -> 08:38 AM) Hey Chisoxfn ..... how is it hanging ????? Been well ? in Tanaka , the offer for him, I believe was nothing but a token one. proof is when he WENT over for Jose From everything heard, Sox made a very serious offer at Tanaka. Yankees were desperate though and had a major need. Offering what the Sox offered, knowing their hesitation to go after free agent pitching, was a pretty big step and showed what the club thought off Tanaka. However, you still have to consider the downside risk, etc, and I Think that is why they couldn't quite go to where the Yankees were going and tried to come up with other options to try and entice Tanaka but with Yanks offer. Everything is well. What about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) From everything heard, Sox made a very serious offer at Tanaka. Yankees were desperate though and had a major need. Offering what the Sox offered, knowing their hesitation to go after free agent pitching, was a pretty big step and showed what the club thought off Tanaka. However, you still have to consider the downside risk, etc, and I Think that is why they couldn't quite go to where the Yankees were going and tried to come up with other options to try and entice Tanaka but with Yanks offer. Everything is well. What about you? it would've been great.... ref to me..... happily no more strokes or heart attacks.... what is it like 7 heartattacks and 2 strokes and 29 stents in 5 yrs. but the biggest thing is to fog I was in for those 5 yrs have lifted..... and all I have to say ..... damned I missed the sox world series and the 2 blackhawks Stanley cop.... s***eeee ofter waiting all these damn yrs.,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The thing to remember about the Tanaka contract is that it's a very bad contract. He gets $20m/yr up front and then has an opt-out after three years. If he pitches well at ALL then he's gone or you have to give him a bigger contract, if he's hurt or sucks, the Yankees are on the hook for an elite-level salary. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't blame the White Sox for not beating that contract, especially considering what an unknown he was then versus now. It was a desperate play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 1, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) The thing to remember about the Tanaka contract is that it's a very bad contract. He gets $20m/yr up front and then has an opt-out after three years. If he pitches well at ALL then he's gone or you have to give him a bigger contract, if he's hurt or sucks, the Yankees are on the hook for an elite-level salary. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't blame the White Sox for not beating that contract, especially considering what an unknown he was then versus now. It was a desperate play. The Yankees don't care because they have more money than they know what to do with and they know the best way to increase franchise value is to win. Besides, the damage a bad contract can do is vastly overstated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) The Yankees don't care because they have more money than they know what to do with and they know the best way to increase franchise value is to win. Besides, the damage a bad contract can do is vastly overstated. Yeah, I'm sure being in New York has nothing to do with their financial success. Well, I'm sold! All we have to do is spend infinity dollars every year and we're set! It's amazing that 28 other teams haven't figured out the secret formula yet. Maybe if everyone spends infinity dollars, everyone can win a championship every year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 11:17 PM) The Yankees don't care because they have more money than they know what to do with and they know the best way to increase franchise value is to win. Besides, the damage a bad contract can do is vastly overstated. hey I agree with the money statement and the yanks. but I do feel sorry for JR and the fans, b/c we have to constantly look at the money side, b/c we will always be 2nd fiddle to the sCrubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) It's much smarter to use the Cardinals than the Yankees as a model organization. The principle that "the White Sox should behave like the Yankees" is a recipe for disaster. You haven't seen the Cards overpaying in free agency very much lately. Rather, they have benefited from sustained intra-organizational success. How about we get that going instead? Then maybe our big city status will let us behave more like the Yankees in, say, 30 years after we've won a handful of championships. Edited May 1, 2014 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ May 1, 2014 -> 11:30 PM) It's much smarter to use the Cardinals than the Yankees as a model organization. The principle that "the White Sox should behave like the Yankees" is a recipe for disaster. You haven't seen the Cards overpaying in free agency very much lately. Rather, they have benefited from sustained intra-organizational success. How about we get that going instead? Then maybe our big city status will let us behave more like the Yankees in, say, 30 years after we've won a handful of championships. lets look at the rise and fall of cle and det. they always had good numbers of fans and season ticket was always really good. but now cle is being careful in their investment. with det, when they don't play nice with Boras... as that honeymoon is now over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:30 PM) It's much smarter to use the Cardinals than the Yankees as a model organization. The principle that "the White Sox should behave like the Yankees" is a recipe for disaster. You haven't seen the Cards overpaying in free agency very much lately. Rather, they have benefited from sustained intra-organizational success. How about we get that going instead? Then maybe our big city status will let us behave more like the Yankees in, say, 30 years after we've won a handful of championships. If you want to be like the Cardinals trade Chris Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) The Yankees don't care because they have more money than they know what to do with and they know the best way to increase franchise value is to win. Besides, the damage a bad contract can do is vastly overstated. lol. This is gold. The best pay to increase the value of a franchise is to be the most popular franchise in a City of 8 million people. The funny thing is even the Yankees weren't spending until they got contract relief this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:40 PM) If you want to be like the Cardinals trade Chris Sale. When have the Cardinals traded their franchise players, ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 If you want to be like the Cardinals trade Chris Sale. [/quote ] For me, I have very little non tradable players/prospects, so here is a better question who are your keepers? Jose, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 06:40 PM) If you want to be like the Cardinals trade Chris Sale. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 06:42 PM) When have the Cardinals traded their franchise players, ever? He's got a point. The Cardinals developed a number 1 starter who made his debut in the bullpen and then within a couple years he was a cy young candidate. But he was recognized as an injury risk and so that's why Adam Wainright was traded away by the Cardinals and then someone else had to endure paying him during Tommy John surgery. I mean, it's almost a perfect case study of Marty being right. The only thing that would make it not a great example is if the Cardinals had actually held onto Wainright instead and I just made that part of the post up to illustrate how perfect of an example it is in the opposite direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 1, 2014 -> 11:47 PM) He's got a point. The Cardinals developed a number 1 starter who made his debut in the bullpen and then within a couple years he was a cy young candidate. But he was recognized as an injury risk and so that's why Adam Wainright was traded away by the Cardinals and then someone else had to endure paying him during Tommy John surgery. I mean, it's almost a perfect case study of Marty being right. The only thing that would make it not a great example is if the Cardinals had actually held onto Wainright instead and I just made that part of the post up to illustrate how perfect of an example it is in the opposite direction. if we were not in the hunt come end of July, then lets trade if we can get a haul in return.... a starting pitcher and 2 or 3 top prospects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:42 PM) When have the Cardinals traded their franchise players, ever? I don't think they ever have. They also never hired a farm director who is serving time for skimming bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:42 PM) When have the Cardinals traded their franchise players, ever? Does Ernie Broglio count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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