Feeky Magee Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) So according to FIP,xFIP and SIERRA, the pitches he threw should have resulted in 2.60 runs, 2.68 runs, and 2.33 runs allowed respectively. That's pretty silly. Look I shouldn't have quoted them over the sample size of a game, I was just making the point that to say he got lucky was silly. Danks was hit hard in his last start but they got 2 runs. Grounders found infielders and liners found outfielders. You can give up a lot of hard hits and still not deserve an ERA over 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 12:41 PM) According to Statcast, the average exit velocity off the bat last night against Gonzalez was 102 mph. He got hit really hard. For reference, the MLB average exit velocity is 90 mph. Yeah, he got hit hard. That wasn't luck. That was just not being a good pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) Look I shouldn't have quoted them over the sample size of a game, I was just making the point that to say he got lucky was silly. Danks was hit hard in his last start but they got 2 runs. Grounders found infielders and liners found outfielders. You can give up a lot of hard hits and still not deserve an ERA over 8. Danks got lucky he gave up only 2. If you give up rockets, you are the lucky one if they are hit right at someone. It isn't lucky your shot finds a place to land. Quoting a 3.94 SIERRA after last night's game, isn't a great endorsement for SIERRA. Edited April 26, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) Look I shouldn't have quoted them over the sample size of a game, I was just making the point that to say he got lucky was silly. Danks was hit hard in his last start but they got 2 runs. Grounders found infielders and liners found outfielders. You can give up a lot of hard hits and still not deserve an ERA over 8. And it was pretty universally accepted that Danks got really lucky to only give up a couple of runs because he defense bailed him out with three big double plays. He deserved worse than he got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) If you or I or any random Soxtalk poster hit the mound, we would get hit hard, not because of luck, but because we sucked. We're not talking about you or I, we're talking about one of the best 150 or so best pitchers in the world. Once you're at that level, you can start making assumptions about what should normally happen to their pitches. In a hypothetical where we play that game over and Gonzalez throws the exact same pitches you think his BABIP is .526? QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) Danks got lucky he gave up only 2. If you give up rockets, you are the lucky one if they are hit right at someone. It isn't lucky your shot finds a place to land. This is true to an extent, but there's a medium in between "I got hit hard, I deserved to give up some hits" and "I deserved to have over half the balls put in play to land as hits". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) Quoting a 3.94 SIERRA after last night's game, isn't a great endorsement for SIERRA. I've also said repeatedly I shouldn't have quoted peripherals like that for one game. But I stick with the basic premise that he didn't get lucky, as you claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 12:52 PM) I've also said repeatedly I shouldn't have quoted peripherals like that for one game. But I stick with the basic premise that he didn't get lucky, as you claimed. The entire premise of your point is the peripherals you have admitted you shouldn't have used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeky Magee Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) The entire premise of your point is the peripherals you have admitted you shouldn't have used. No the entire premise of my point is that a) an 8.44 ERA is already very high. To say he deserved worse is extreme and b) MLB pitchers, even those getting hit hard, still don't deserve over half the balls in play fall for hits and I think this means overall he was quite unlucky, despite not pitching well It's not exactly a controversial opinion: guy who struck out 6 and walked 2 (while getting squeezed by a terrible ump) and at the same time got hit hard probably didn't deserve ERA worse than 8 and a half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I personally want to see Miguel for another start. See If he can build on this and be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I wanna see 1 more. The guy had velocity and good movement. Give him some time with Coop and another opportunity to see what he can do. Guy got called to pitch against Toronto on 2 day notice? I've seen great pitchers get rocked just as hard as Miguel has. s*** happens to the best of them. I give him 1 more, then reevaluate Danks, Turner, EJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (onedude @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 06:44 PM) I wanna see 1 more. The guy had velocity and good movement. Give him some time with Coop and another opportunity to see what he can do. Guy got called to pitch against Toronto on 2 day notice? I've seen great pitchers get rocked just as hard as Miguel has. s*** happens to the best of them. I give him 1 more, then reevaluate Danks, Turner, EJ. I don't think he had any more velocity than Danks from what I saw. But, his changeup was pretty good. I am not sold on the guy as there wasn't any real improvement then what we saw with Danks. Comments about Danks being lucky his last time out when he gave up only two runs because his defense turned three DP's is really kind of strange statement. The defense did what it was supposed to do. If it hadn't would we say Danks was unlucky that the DP's weren't turned? I am not sure where luck comes into this equation. I guess Miguel should get another start, but I think Danks will keep his spot, but maybe one of the two ends up going to long relief? I was a bit surprised that Johnson wasn't kept and given the start. Maybe cause he hadn't pitched at all since he was recalled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 03:30 PM) I don't think he had any more velocity than Danks from what I saw. But, his changeup was pretty good. I am not sold on the guy as there wasn't any real improvement then what we saw with Danks. Comments about Danks being lucky his last time out when he gave up only two runs because his defense turned three DP's is really kind of strange statement. The defense did what it was supposed to do. If it hadn't would we say Danks was unlucky that the DP's weren't turned? I am not sure where luck comes into this equation. I guess Miguel should get another start, but I think Danks will keep his spot, but maybe one of the two ends up going to long relief? I was a bit surprised that Johnson wasn't kept and given the start. Maybe cause he hadn't pitched at all since he was recalled? He had velocity...he was gone for Baltimore throwing mid to upper 80s. He was in the low 90s last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm not a Gonzalez fan or a Danks fan but I wonder if some of the people saying Gonzalez got unlucky actually watched the whole game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 05:19 PM) I'm not a Gonzalez fan or a Danks fan but I wonder if some of the people saying Gonzalez got unlucky actually watched the whole game. Looked to me like whatever "bad luck" had had on BABIP it was neutralized by his HR/FB% luck. Could have easily given up 3 bombs instead of just long doubles. He was leaving a lot of balls up and the Jays were crushing them. That said, overall his stuff is better than Danks' if he can sit at 90-91mph on his heater, and he was doing that last night for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxforlife05 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 26, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) Looked to me like whatever "bad luck" had had on BABIP it was neutralized by his HR/FB% luck. Could have easily given up 3 bombs instead of just long doubles. He was leaving a lot of balls up and the Jays were crushing them. That said, overall his stuff is better than Danks' if he can sit at 90-91mph on his heater, and he was doing that last night for the most part. He looks like a guy who would benefit from a cutter. His fastball is just too straight and doesn't have enough velocity to get it by hitters when he needs to throw a strike Edited April 26, 2016 by soxforlife05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Chicago White SoxVerified account @whitesox Prior to tonight’s game, the #WhiteSox optioned RHP Miguel Gonzalez to Class AAA Charlotte and recalled RHP Daniel Webb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Well that's the end of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 Whatsup with Turner? They just gonna pay him 1.5million to pitch in Charlotte? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 27, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Whatsup with Turner? They just gonna pay him 1.5million to pitch in Charlotte? He's definitely next man up, as soon as they get fed up with Danks he's going to step in and sink or swim. The guy is doing well but he hasn't pitched much the last 2 years, have to let him build his arm up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted April 27, 2016 Author Share Posted April 27, 2016 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 27, 2016 -> 02:18 PM) Whatsup with Turner? They just gonna pay him 1.5million to pitch in Charlotte? Hopefully, as it would mean that John Danks is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 27, 2016 -> 08:01 PM) Hopefully, as it would mean that John Danks is fine. I am guessing there will be mucho interest directed at Danks next start in Baltimore. Hopefully he can build on his last start and get a win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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