Panerista

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:34 PM) He's a rookie who was barely out of college this time last year. If he's been disappointing then the problem was your expectations. I still laugh at the person who told me that bringing up Rodon in April would be worth 10 extra wins for this club, but that's where people were in their thinking early this season. Seriously, no one should be worried about Rodon. Most pitchers aren't immediately awesome.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:24 PM) And that will happen as soon as JR sells and not a minute before. They have been drafting good talent recently, you cannot ignore that. So outside of pitchers, who was the last good talent to play major time for the White Sox after being drafted by the White Sox? Gordon Beckham And he's not much to write home about, either.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) Hitting .374 in the minors is a skill in the majors in what way? Hitting for average is a skill. Don't pretend that teams don't look at minor league production as a gauge for what skills a guy has. You hit .374 in the majors, there's a good chance you can hit for average in the majors. Not always, but don't act like Avi was just some stupid call up. There were seriously good signs.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) A true rebuild will never happen when JR is in charge. The fans are too fickle and he is still mocked to this day for the last full rebuild he attempted (White Flag trades). It is not really fair to say the Sox cannot develop hitting talent, they really have not even tried. They had Semien and Johnson both reach the majors in the last year as 5-10 round draft picks. They have really focused heavily on pitching at the expense of drafting hitters with the potential to impact the game. The Sox scouts are also overly enamored with RH power. This leads to selecting/signing guys that have light tower power in batting practice but have an excessive amount of swing and miss in their game and often poor pitch recognition. Since Hahn has taken over the draft, they have done much better selecting hitting prospects, but they are still a ways away from contributing. A full rebuild would be tough to pull off, you have young, high quality cost controlled assets not that you would be turning around for young, unknown quality cost controlled assets. The biggest mistake that Hahn made was adding LaRoche and Cabrera this off-season and giving a piece of the fan base a notion that the team was going to contend this year and giving up a draft pick, this is only year 2 of the rebuilding project and it has a ways to go yet before success can be sustainable. You are barely into the last rebuild, why would want to tear it apart and start over? When I say "rebuild", I don't mean "rebuild current roster", I mean "rebuilding your entire organization from the ground up and draft real talent you can develop internally"

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 01:02 PM) Houston is the fourth largest city in the US...and the tenth largest media market. Texas cities don't love baseball like Illinois does. Chicago Major Sports teams, by Popularity 1) Bears 2) Blackhawks 2a) Bulls 3) Cubs Gap 4) White Sox Houston Major Sports teams, by Popularity 1) Texans 2) Longhorns 3) Aggies 4) Cowboys (trust me, this is true) 5) Rockets 6) Astros Texas doesn't value baseball like Chicago does. It's a completely different culture. The Astros are not a true major market team. Houston makes the Astros a mid market team.

This 670 the Score feed... ...radio gold. No but seriously, this is awfully uncomfortable.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 12:22 PM) When you have the rotation they do/will have, all you have to be is average offensively to have a shot. Tall order. This team is awful offensively. At least Eaton has come around.

QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) I'm not sure at this point a complete rebuild is the way to go. On the other hand I thought Hahn did a pretty good job this past off season. How wrong I was. I think you would have to say good bye to Sale, Q an Abreu and maybe more. 3 very good contracts but that should give us a big jump start on good young players. I'm also a bit leary of this FO selecting the right players in trade. Other than pitching I don't see much in players in our minors. While I admit you are probably right, it's really frustrating to see a number of teams have a good deal of success with it.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:55 AM) If we really want to be taken seriously then we need to open the bank a bit for a quality player, Heyward is the type of talent/age combo I could see them paying. You're probably right though, but a lesser player in the same mold would be fine. Maybe a trade for Carlos Gonzalez could be worked on in the offseason. And while the excitement of 80 whatever stolen bases Micah had has certainly hampered, I think he profiles as a .300/.360/.420 type of guy in the majors and batting out of the 2 hole would give us another on base threat behind Eaton and in front of Abreu/Melky. I'm a big fan of the rotating DH because it would allow us to minimize the time he would spend on the field, his weakest area. The same logic could apply to Melky. Or draft our own talent. There is no better value than a blue chip player on a rookie contract. The front office might not be able to do this, however.

Over in the Cubs catch all thread, we were having a great discussion about the teams that have had great success starting over. In particular, I'm thinking Astros Cubs Twins Royals What would it take, and what would be the pros and cons of rebuilding a time the "right way"? The first thing that I think jumps out immediately is attendance. The White Sox faithful tend to only come out for a winning product on the field. Belief: The White Sox can't rebuild because people won't come Problem? People aren't at the game now. See the sobering thread. The closest comparison I see is Houston. There was a game a couple of years back where NO ONE actually saw an Astros game on TV. The team was horrible year in and year out. However, it would appear through rebuilding that the Astros have one of the more fruitful minor leagues in baseball and it is beginning to show in the majors. The next thing, IMHO, is the front office Belief: The White Sox front office can't draft fielding talent This may be the biggest issue for me. Is Gordon Beckham really the last "successful" talent prospect? Yikes. Ownership Belief: Jerry is old and wants to win now I wonder if it is truly possible that Jerry does not want to make sweeping changes to the organization because any such change costs the White Sox a chance to win. This team tries to win it all every year and since 2006, they have been massive failures at it. Thankfully, the White Sox have been so bad, they have started to improve the farm system anyway, but not nearly to the level they could. I'm still brainstorming this whole concept, because I'm convinced the White Sox could benefit heavily from a talent development model.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:05 AM) See: Current situation in Detroit, and why Dombrowski bailed. If the Mets, Royals, Twins, Astros and Cubs can do it.... Love that three of the five are comparatively small market teams (I understand Houston is a big town, but not like you think). The White Sox need to be this, but they can only accomplish that by 1) Not going for it every year and 2) drafting better.

It's too bad Williams will likely have the biggest say in Ventura's potential replacement. In any other organization, Williams, likely Hahn, and Ventura would be long gone. However, my number one is Dave Martinez. I think the Ozzie thing is still over. He's a good diplomat for the team, but I don't want the circus again.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 08:20 AM) When you have a losing roster with a weak system, one of the things you do have is time. You don't have people who are blocked and you have lots of open at bats and starts. If you use that time to pick up talented people who haven't yet succeeded and give them a chance to play, not all of them will be successful, but some of them will be. It's a lesson I've been wishing the White Sox would figure out. You can't do it if you're under pressure to win now, but you can do it if you have a GM who has ownership's confidence and has stability for several years, time enough to ride out the struggles of the guys you bring in. And we're talking about the Cubs and we're always drawn to compare them to the White Sox. The issue is, of course, that the Cubs are one of the superfanbases in terms of size and following. We simply do not have that. Our more similar comparison would be Houston. Houston had a game where no one officially watched the game on television. They were so bad for a number of years, but now they have real talent. The question is, how good can they be and how good do they have to be to get fans back? If the Astros can survive this level of rebuild, the White Sox can, too. When it all comes down to it, the reality is our owner is a very old man. I can't blame Jerry for wanting to win right now. At this point, any Front Office changes cost the team a year, but every year it feels like the White Sox are wasting away what makes an organization strong to pretend to compete.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 07:21 AM) Without knowing what might have been offered for Samardzija, I fail to see the point. Sounds like the Royals were interested. There is some serious talent in that organization. Probably should have moved Samardzija. At this rate, he's gone at the end of the year and the White Sox will get picks for him, but the FO sucks at drafting the positional talent we desperately need.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 07:34 AM) I thought of this thread after Sale got roughed up again but I didn't want to be the one to pour salt in yet another open wound. Was it his last start where he got a liner in the knee? I feel like he has been different since then.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 07:18 AM) Is there a difference? Last I checked pretty much all of the players you just listed are prospects, and here you are acting like they are all proven major leaguers. And i love how you are acting like the Sox are "shutout from 1/3 of the market" by deliberately not even trying to look in the Sox minor league system for any sort of Hispanic/Latin American players and then listing off multiple players on the Cubs. Not all prospects are equal. First of all, their prospects, blue chip players, have actual value. When Theo decides it's time to win, they'll move their lesser prospects to fill in their major league club's holes. We only have second tier prospects in terms of positional talent.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 10:06 PM) Sox get clobbered, 11-3. Thanks White Sox for going 7-1 on that road trip, then immediately sucking. You players convinced everybody you were in the WC hunt to stay, so Sox didn't trade Shark and some other guys they should have dealt. Now the team will have to do all its trading in the wintertime and will just get some dumb compensation pick for Shark. Ugh. Thank you White Sox for nothing. How you guys won all four from Cleveland and three of four from Boston is one of life's great mysteries. I know those teams suck but it still makes no sense you'd go 7-1 right before the trade deadline. This season is over. Time to rebuild. I know it won't happen, but it needs to. The Sox are multiple seasons behind.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 2, 2015 -> 06:52 PM) This. I'm over hating the Cubs. I'm not going to actively cheer for them or anything but obsessing/hoping/praying they fail (as I did in 2003 for example) is over for me. Hell, once they start winning, maybe the ws limp-dick FO will look to duplicate. I can't help but marvel in it a bit. It's really incredible what they have done there. They look set up to win for a LONG time. They're a wild card team and their organizational goal is still to develop talent. They're sticking to their plan. Rick Hahn and Kenny Williams (if not them, Jerry Reinsdorf) need to wake up. Their way of doing things is over. Buying free agent talent and failing at drafting positional talent is not a roadmap for long term success. Make no mistake, I'm a White Sox fan, but I want to see the Cubs do well. They have little to do with "our guys" and the White Sox are just so infuriating at the moment.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 2, 2015 -> 04:14 PM) Everyone except maybe the Cardinals has a Cooperstown full of busts. Not like the Sox in the last ten years. They can't draft a position player to save their lives.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 06:04 PM) I need to get a job in the White Sox front office. Display negative results year after year, get promoted! It's a complete embarrassment.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 3, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) Scouted Gordon Beckham... :o The last even remotely successful White Sox position player drafted by the team.

So basically, he might not make it to us but he won't get past us. Here's hoping. I'm done with Saladino.

I'm not keeping up. Why was he DFA'd? Ah, I see. A roster spot. I'll take him.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 2, 2015 -> 06:50 PM) The Russians the Red Wings had were really good especially Federov . The Hawks Russians have a lot to prove and quickly. Russian influence in the NHL is really an interesting discussion. Drafting Russia players in the current NHL is a little bit riskier now. The KHL is becoming extremely attractive to a number of players. Players like Val Nichushkin should not have fallen as far as he did, but there is clearly some concern Russian players will terminate their contracts and return to the KHL.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 2, 2015 -> 04:28 PM) And just like that, Cubs are tied for the WC lead. 4 days ago, they were 2.5 out of the WC and so were the Sox. I hate baseball this year. If the Cubs success and the White Sox failure drives your love/hate for baseball, you're going to hate baseball for the foreseeable future. Their future is stacked, our's is garbage. What a difference a front office makes.