Moan4Yoan Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) Greg likes to pinpoint his argument on one factor — Colome’s age. That IS one factor but not the only one. Colome is under control for one more year and he will likely earn around $9 million for next season via salary arbitration. Now if you extend him, you will be paying him even more. He is a very good closer but he is not in the elite tier of closers, even though his stats this year are great. If you trade Colome, you could potentially get a piece back that is useful for the next 6 years, as well as free up $9 million of Colome’s salary (even more money if you planned on extending him) to spend elsewhere, including relief pitching. But trying to understand these other factors/possibilities would destroy Greg’s narrow-minded argument that all the “statniks” on SoxTalk simply hate all older players. Edited July 8, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Any time you can get value from a reliever when you're a non-contender, you take it. We have months to replace Colome, either externally or internally. One of Burdi, Hansen, Fulmer or Hamilton could emerge. If not, you have the entire off season to find relievers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Greg likes to pinpoint his argument on one factor — Colome’s age. That IS one factor but not the only one. Colome is under control for one more year and he will likely earn around $9 million for next season via salary arbitration. Now if you extend him, you will be paying him even more. He is a very good closer but he is not in the elite tier of closers, even though his stats this year are great. If you trade Colome, you could potentially get a piece back that is useful for the next 6 years, as well as free up $9 million of Colome’s salary (even more money if you planned on extending him) to spend elsewhere, including relief pitching. But trying to understand these other factors/possibilities would destroy Greg’s narrow-minded argument that all the “statniks” on SoxTalk simply hate all older players. Right, while nearly all posters can blend the many factors that go into our opinions on what the team should do to be a consistent contender moving forward (age, control, position, productivity, future outlook, etc), greg can only handle one, so he assume all of us are only focused on a single input as well. And despite pointing this out, he will not be able to grow or change, because this has been pointed out to him roughly 1000x to him during the last 10 years at least and nothing. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Any time you can get value from a reliever when you're a non-contender, you take it. We have months to replace Colome, either externally or internally. One of Burdi, Hansen, Fulmer or Hamilton could emerge. If not, you have the entire off season to find relievers. First thing we agree on. Trophy for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Any time you can get value from a reliever when you're a non-contender, you take it. We have months to replace Colome, either externally or internally. One of Burdi, Hansen, Fulmer or Hamilton could emerge. If not, you have the entire off season to find relievers. None of these guys can be relied on at all going forward. Projecting one of them to be your closer in 2020 sounds like a recipe for disaster. What legit closers are available in FA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, OneDog847 said: None of these guys can be relied on at all going forward. Projecting one of them to be your closer in 2020 sounds like a recipe for disaster. What legit closers are available in FA? I don’t believe in Fulmer much but why not a guy like Burdi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: First thing we agree on. Trophy for you. This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: None of these guys can be relied on at all going forward. Projecting one of them to be your closer in 2020 sounds like a recipe for disaster. What legit closers are available in FA? Good thing we have a year to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Moan4Yoan said: I don’t believe in Fulmer much but why not a guy like Burdi? Burdi has not been good as he has recovered from TJ. He is nearly 2 years removed, and has a 6.5 ERA in AA. Where he used to have an absolutely insane k%, it's now fairly ordinary. Add to that his command is more wild than it used to be and...well tough to trust that for a contending teams closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. I extend the olive branch and you shit all over it. 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, bmags said: Burdi has not been good as he has recovered from TJ. He is nearly 2 years removed, and has a 6.5 ERA in AA. Where he used to have an absolutely insane k%, it's now fairly ordinary. Add to that his command is more wild than it used to be and...well tough to trust that for a contending teams closer. I did notice that in his numbers but I didn’t realize it’s already been that long since his surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Moan4Yoan said: I don’t believe in Fulmer much but why not a guy like Burdi? Because Zach Burdi has shown that he cannot stay healthy and is as fragile as a China doll. He has also never pitched an inning in the Show and has unimpressive numbers in the minors. The Sox will end up trading back for Colome next year if they roll with Burdi as their closer in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 If I'm trading Colome, I'm looking for a young SP who can immediately be penciled in to the back of the rotation for the next couple years (probably unrealistic) or a guy who is either MLB ready or in MLB that can be our everyday RFer for the next 3 years. Who are some possibilities for that scenario? I took a look at LAD's mlb pipeline page because they seem to always have a ton of OFers and they could use Colome... Is a guy like DJ Peters to much or too little for Colome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Good thing we have a year to figure it out. Not really. The Sox shouldn't be having open auditions for the closer position once the 2020 season starts. My prediction is that Colome stays put and the Sox roll with him as closer again next year. That allows them time for the young bullpen arms to continue to develop or recover from injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: If I'm trading Colome, I'm looking for a young SP who can immediately be penciled in to the back of the rotation for the next couple years (probably unrealistic) or a guy who is either MLB ready or in MLB that can be our everyday RFer for the next 3 years. Who are some possibilities for that scenario? I took a look at LAD's mlb pipeline page because they seem to always have a ton of OFers and they could use Colome... Is a guy like DJ Peters to much or too little for Colome? Completely agree on priorities. My only caveat being preference for LH hitter. Another approach might be to identify ideal candidates (those who would make a real impact for the rest of 2019 and beyond) and figure out who, in addition to Colome, we might have to part with. Houston has a couple who come to mind in Alvarez and Tucker. Nats have Robles. Sure none of these guys would come cheap, if available at all but...if we can identify the next Yelich and/or Bellinger and plug him alongside Robert and Eloy....might be worth a package of ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 16 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: None of these guys can be relied on at all going forward. Projecting one of them to be your closer in 2020 sounds like a recipe for disaster. What legit closers are available in FA? Will Smith and Greg Holland are both unrestricted FAs after this season and both of them should be comparable to Colome and given that Colome will cost about $9 million in arbitration they may be available for about the same money. Liam Hendricks is having an excellent season in Oakland, he's a FA. Will Harris from Houston, Arodys Vizcaino from Seattle, Kinzler from the Cubs, all really good this year, all free agents. Frankly I'd be surprised if we didn't at least sign 1 of them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Not really. The Sox shouldn't be having open auditions for the closer position once the 2020 season starts. My prediction is that Colome stays put and the Sox roll with him as closer again next year. That allows them time for the young bullpen arms to continue to develop or recover from injury. My sense is if Colome stays put it will be because the market for him is tepid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Flash said: My sense is if Colome stays put it will be because the market for him is tepid. Same, and I don't know where the sellers market thing came from, sounds like it will be pretty tepid. I think my one hope is that the mets are on tilt and do something dumb. Either sox should look into Diaz as a buy low guy (which would be the worst management by the mets) or see if they buy high on colome for some reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: Same, and I don't know where the sellers market thing came from, sounds like it will be pretty tepid. I think my one hope is that the mets are on tilt and do something dumb. Either sox should look into Diaz as a buy low guy (which would be the worst management by the mets) or see if they buy high on colome for some reason? I agree on Mets. The team I keep coming back to is Milwaukee. In the past, they have sought BP help from the Sox and they are in serious need this year. Colome would be a strong addition but its not obvious who we would be interested in. I really like Turang but guess he's unavailable. Dubon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Will Smith and Greg Holland are both unrestricted FAs after this season and both of them should be comparable to Colome and given that Colome will cost about $9 million in arbitration they may be available for about the same money. Liam Hendricks is having an excellent season in Oakland, he's a FA. Will Harris from Houston, Arodys Vizcaino from Seattle, Kinzler from the Cubs, all really good this year, all free agents. Frankly I'd be surprised if we didn't at least sign 1 of them anyway. I would love to add a guy like Will Smith but I think there will be a pretty good bidding war for him next offseason. The Sox really need to prioritize most of their FA $ on starting pitching and right field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, Flash said: My sense is if Colome stays put it will be because the market for him is tepid. It's probably going to be. The results are super nice, but there's some concerning trends going on there and contending teams are smart enough to look beyond the saves. Happy to be proven wrong, but his batted ball numbers are nuts for the results he's getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Flash said: I agree on Mets. The team I keep coming back to is Milwaukee. In the past, they have sought BP help from the Sox and they are in serious need this year. Colome would be a strong addition but its not obvious who we would be interested in. I really like Turang but guess he's unavailable. Dubon? I think the pedestrian returns from Milwaukee, and that milwaukee has been so good at sending out trash in trades makes me look at them skeptically. I love turang. He'd be a great flip piece...I don't see them trading Turang for Colome. I don't personally believe in Dubon. He suddenly had this huge spike in production in the PCL and then with the juiced ball, and even then it's not that impressive. He's a weird one for you. Would you buy low on Travis Shaw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: I think the pedestrian returns from Milwaukee, and that milwaukee has been so good at sending out trash in trades makes me look at them skeptically. I love turang. He'd be a great flip piece...I don't see them trading Turang for Colome. I don't personally believe in Dubon. He suddenly had this huge spike in production in the PCL and then with the juiced ball, and even then it's not that impressive. He's a weird one for you. Would you buy low on Travis Shaw? I've always liked Shaw. Great personal story. Where do we play him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, bmags said: I think the pedestrian returns from Milwaukee, and that milwaukee has been so good at sending out trash in trades makes me look at them skeptically. I love turang. He'd be a great flip piece...I don't see them trading Turang for Colome. I don't personally believe in Dubon. He suddenly had this huge spike in production in the PCL and then with the juiced ball, and even then it's not that impressive. He's a weird one for you. Would you buy low on Travis Shaw? Eh, what does he do for you even if he bounces back? Even at his best he hit's just kinda okay for a 1B/DH and I'm not moving Moncada again for a reclamation piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just now, Flash said: I've always liked Shaw. Great personal story. Where do we play him? 2b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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