C.Rector Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Some of you have been apprehensive about the Cubs's prospects for 2004 complete with dire feelings about how a Cubs return to the NL playoffs could further erode the Sox fanbase. Well, here's a corrective to those paranoid feelings from the Astros Daily fansite at http://astrosdaily.com/ : For the first time in several seasons, the Astros enter a new campaign with few questions about which players will be doing the playing for them during the year. Even the questions they do have--about Clemens, about Hernandez, about Hidalgo--can be dealt with successfully if the answers to those questions are negative: if Clemens remains retired, if Hernandez cannot stay healthy and pitch well, if Hidalgo is traded for budgetary reasons. For the first time since 1996, when the Astros finished six games back of the Cardinals, Houston enters the season with no major questions about any part of its club--neither its starting pitching, its bullpen, its defense, its hitting or its bench. While many of us will wonder about exactly who will fill supporting roles for that bench and for that bullpen, our questions as we wait out the longest month of the year--March--will be mostly the questions fans should be asking--questions about performance, rather than personnel, about how well the club we will see will actually do on the field. Will it come together both in hitting and pitching and give us a season like the one we saw in 1998? I think it might. Houston's pitching appears more sound than that which the team had back then and, like that team, everyone knows that this team will hit. The question will be, can the Astros' offense, potentially explosive, stay healthy and largely intact for the lion's share of 162 games? If it can, then this is going to be a season which will open with even greater promise than 2003 did, and it might be a season filled with excitement we haven't seen since Randy Johnson stood on a Houston mound. That season began much as this one has, with the acquisition of a marquee player, Moises Alou, playing the part Andy Pettitte played in December, but, like this off-season, that off-season passed with an air of quiet anticipation. It took a month for the Astros of 1998 to find their stride, but once they found it, no one stopped them until October came, and they faced a man named Brown. Like that club, this Astros team may take a month or so to jell, but if and when it does, it will be formidable. As was the case six seasons ago, the Cubs will be there again to challenge the Astros, this time with better pitching and a more versatile offense than the 90-win team Chicago had back then. It should be a terrific race between these two clubs, but you might not know it in the quiet days of January. At the moment we're all just waiting, letting the days pass, preparing as best we can, and hoping the season to come will be as bright as it has been in our dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Thanks for posting this....It's nice to see after the whole world's been jumping on the bandwagon of the sCrUBS......Everyone says they've had the greatest offseason. I would have to go w/ the Phillies or BoSox on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I still think the Cubs win the division. The Astros don't seem to match up to them. The main questions for the Cubs are the same, those being the back of the rotation(mainly just the #5 starter, but also if Matt Clement can rebound), and the bullpen(as we all know that one move does not make a bullpen). Their offense isn't the greatest either though. Houston plays in a bandbox, so I wouldn't count too much on Andy Pettitte, though I still think the bullpen and lineup remain rock solid(even with Wagner gone from the pen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I think it will be a tight race - the Cubs have a good shot at it, but the Astros will be right there. If they can convince Clemens to unretire ( or more accurately, not really retire yet ), then they can boast AT LEAST as good a starting rotation as the Cubs'. I'll take Dotel over Borowski, and middle relief seems about even, maybe a little in the Cubs favor. There's no question who I WANT to win the division - it's as easy as ABC - "Anyone But Cubs"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I also believe the cubs will win the division. Andy Pettitte, in my opinion, is so overated. This will be his 1st time pitching in the national league and the astros boards think he is better than Wood, Zambrano, and the same as Prior. we'll see tho it should be a fun race especially if Clemens reconsiders (i believe he won't) retirement and goes to the stros. As for who had a good offseason, I agree with greasywheels, Phillies and Bosox had good offseasons. I also have to consider the yankee$ but the cubs did as well (they will have a great offseason if they sign Maddux and Pudge.) :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Wade Miller is da key for the Astros in my opinion. Scouts say he has all da talent in da world and is capable of winnin 20 games in a season but as of yet has not produced. If he has a big year, it'll ease sum pressure of Pettite and Roy Oswalt to perform and the Astros could be very dangerous. They could ship out Hidalgo to free up sum more money as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I also believe the cubs will win the division. Andy Pettitte, in my opinion, is so overated. This will be his 1st time pitching in the national league and the astros boards think he is better than Wood, Zambrano, and the same as Prior. we'll see tho it should be a fun race especially if Clemens reconsiders (i believe he won't) retirement and goes to the stros. As for who had a good offseason, I agree with greasywheels, Phillies and Bosox had good offseasons. I also have to consider the yankee$ but the cubs did as well (they will have a great offseason if they sign Maddux and Pudge.) :fthecubs I actually think going to the NL will help Pettitte because most of the players there have not seen him. What I think will hurt him is pitching in the bandbox that is The Stadium formerly known as Enron(also known by its now proper name Minute Maid Park, or Juice Stadium, which is right for it since the ball flies out, or is juiced). I don't think he wins 20 games, but I think 15-18 is possible, especially with the right offensive support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsSuck1 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Well, at least in baseball it is very hard to repeat anything from year to year, and best teams do not always win divisions/championships. The cubs COULD be good this year, but I think it depends on more than talent. The fans have already set some lofty expectations. Astros should be tough to beat, and I think the cards could surprise people this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Be Good Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 NO I dont, not at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 NO I dont, not at all Some great in depth analysis by BEGOOD there. Naw.. he gets straight to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Cubs will fail as usual. All this hype is gonna come back and bite them in the ass. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2003 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 It amazes me how many people r jumpin on that Cubs wagon. It's like people fail to realize they won last year's central crown by a whopping 1 GAME. Houston and St.louis had MASSIVE injuries to their pitching staff last year, while the Cubs were pretty much healthy. Another thing people fail to realize is that the Cubs haven't had back2back winning seasons let alone back2back playoffs apperances in like 30 years. Oppurtunities like the one the Cubs blew last year don't come around very often. It's not like they're the Yankees who r there every year. As far as the actual team goes. Wood and Prior r studs. Can Zambrano repeat the year he had? He struggled the last month or so and in the playoffs. Clement is a .500 pitcher at best. They still don't have a 5th starter. What about Corey Patterson? How's he gonna come back? Sosa and Alou r older and on the downside. They're still weak at catcher. They helped their bullpen by signing Latroy. But will Borowski be as good? Will Farnworth ever revert back to his 2001 form? Houston and St. Louis have made pretty good addtions to their pitching staff. They already got Pettite and might get Roger to go along with Oswalt and Wade Miller. The Cards have made a few nice moves, plus I hear they're the favorites to land Greg Maddux. The Cubs should contend. But I would be SHOCKED if they won the division again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSF Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Sox forum on whitesox.com is littered with Cub trolls bragging about this year. When they come up short, I can't wait to hear what drivel they'll come up with as an excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2003 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Sox forum on whitesox.com is littered with Cub trolls bragging about this year. When they come up short, I can't wait to hear what drivel they'll come up with as an excuse. LOL...It's like Cub fans really believe last year was just bad luck. That 3-1 collapse against Florida had CURSE written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Fear of what "they" may do is not a way to live. they will fail - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUCKREINSDORF Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I'm glad everyone thinks the sCrUBS are the hands down faves to win the division.Obviously,these people never think about the "what if" factor (what if Prior or Wood sustain lingering injuries).Good luck,guys.As a Sox fan,it says you f***ers will do what you do every time the pressure is on a Chicago baseball team: CHOKE!!! :fthecubs :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The one thing that the Cubs have failed in this off season is getting a legitimate lead-off hitter. Before the Cubs got Lofton they were 1 game over .500.... In my opinion he made the difference in that team last year. The second half was very simple for the Cubs, when Lofton got on base they won, when they didn't they struggled to score. So instead of addressing this in the offseason they make matters worse by not bringing back Lofton or out spending the Marlins for Castillo. The Cubs off-season moves got over-hyped because of their playoff run last year. Another glaring mistake the Cub fans are making is assuming Ramirez at 3rd is going to play as well as he did for the Cubs... This guy is one of the streakiest and moodiest players in baseball, and for Cubdom to assume he's going to straighten out because he's in Chicago is laughable. The Cubs are getting a lot of credit for making "major moves" and while the moves they have made over the last 2-3 years are solid ones, the perception of them as major moves are simply Tribune/Cub smoke and mirrors. For example 1. Derek Lee is playing first base, not Jim Thome who they had the BEST shot at getting 2. Ramirez is playing 3rd base, not Scott Rolen who they had the minor league system to trade for 3. They didn't outspend the Marlins for Luis Castillo 4. They got Hawkins instead of Gudardo, a proven closer 5. They didn't get in on the Curt Schilling trade talk 6. Their talk about signing Maddoux and I-Rod only revolve around if their years and prices drop, which just about every team would say 7. Alex Gonzalez is still playing SS, with no talk of the Cubs interested in Aurillia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hex Rudler Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 The Cubs will be better because of the return of centerfielder Patterson. That kid is going to be terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 are we Sox fans or anti Cubs fans? I am a Sox fan - what that minor league north side team does will not occupy my thinking for two minutes this week or any week except when we play them. You want to fret and get anxious and worry and have your stomach in knots and crown the cubs king in January? Go ahead. Your lives. (Oh but my friends are talking smack to me. Big f***ing deal.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 And What have we done? We can all talk about the Cubs, and how we dont think they will REPEAT winning the divison and getting to the NL Championship, but where do we get off talking like that. I only wish I could worry about the Sox not getting to the AL Championship again. I think we sould worry about are own problems first. Agreed. I also believe we can win the series on the north and south side of chicago against the scrubs. And Tony82087, is that just your personal name or is that a name of one of my favorite players who just "left" the sox Tony G.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I'm not an "anti-cubs fan", but this was a thread discussing the Cubs moves and the perception of them as favorites, which is pretty obvious by the title of it, so don't read it if you don't want to hear "anti-cubs" talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 They won the division last year, didn't take any steps backward so far this offseason. I'm a Astros fan in the NL, but I would be hard pressed to bet against the Cubs this year. I figure it's going to be easier to agree with my Cub fan friends and agree they have a great team for 2004 then eat crow later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I'm not an "anti-cubs fan", but this was a thread discussing the Cubs moves and the perception of them as favorites, which is pretty obvious by the title of it, so don't read it if you don't want to hear "anti-cubs" talk please don't presume to tell me what to read - I don't need your help - my comprehension rate is quite high - what this thread involves much of is high school and colege kids who come into contact with cubs fans who trash talk on them and they wish we woiuld make moves to counter act - my point as your comprehension failed is everyone is a favorite in January, especially when the fans who know elast aboput baseball loudly proclaim that their team is the favorite. Why get your panties in a bunch over it? Other posts point out that the Astros are quite set and my yet sign Clemens. Just cuz loud mouth cub braggerts are going on and on (the same people who said Wood and Prior would never lose two in a row at home guarenteed) that they are favorites because of these moves, it is early January - there is a lot of time for things to happen between now and the start of spring training - then there is spring training - and then the early months of the seasons when deals still get made as the recently recalled ones that got us Graf and Perry in April and May 2000 this thgread is open to everyone, including me, to post my opinion - and my opinion is there is a whoile lot of over reaction going on. Texsox gives the best advice - agree with the scruibs fans to shut them up and sit and wait patiently for their tam to collapse. But for the "woe are us, we children are tormented by our children friends who say the cubbies are great and we suck" maybe theiure should be a separate children's forum to separate out that sort of thing for what soxtalk is about - mature discussions of baseball and things Sox the cubs are not our enemy - we only play them 6 games (all 6 of which I wish to win) - our enemy is the Twins, the Royals, the Tribe, the Tigers, and every AL team - our team keeps winning the season series with the minor league north side team, we have the all time record, that is all that matter regarding them. As for us, I I hope we never engage in moves to keep up with the scrubs - we need to be competitve in the AL, not make moves for the smack talk in junior high locker rooms everywhere. and if you are an anti-cubs fan, this is not your forum - this is a Sox forum for Sox fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Andy Pettite doesnt scare me unless were in the playoffs.... and this doesnt mention the Cubs re-acquiring Maddux as well. I think getting Maddux at this stage is better than getting Clemens... just based on the sheer intellegence of Maddux, and the effect he could have on Prior and Wood could make them even scarier. I think that the cubs fail, because they always find a way too... but before the season starts... I'd say the cubs look far better on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 The Cubs will be failures forever because that's all they know. Even if they're one out away from making the World Series, they will screw it up somehow because that's all they know how to do. The history of the team and the "aura" around them is the halo of failure. They don't know how to win, and they never will because they can't. Somewhere it's written in the stars or the mere spirit of baseball. The Cubs are losers, and their mystique is based upon losing. If they ever won the pennant, I don't think the dips*** fans could deal with it. They would probably blow their brains out in droves, because they wouldn't believe it and they would think they were in a dream or something. They are so used to being losers, I don't think they could deal with success. Let them win their one division a decade - it's like throwing a rubber bone to a starving dog. It satisfies them for an instant, but then it's dead and gone. They can't understand or conceive of success. Did any of you really think they would go the World Series? I knew, just by past history and Cubs lore that they would blow it and f*** it up somehow, someway. The Cubs and their stupid fans are the epitome of failure, and they have blind faith IN the concept of failure. Their fans are truly the biggest losers in all of the world. We shoot maimed horses to put them out of their misery - if we did the same type of euthanasia on Cubs fans, Chicago would be about the 156th largest city in the US - not the 3rd. I say let them suffer and rot. Steve Bartman should have not been chastized and ripped like he was. He was just what the Cosmos ordered - the key in a Cubs failure. That's all those dips***s know, besides drinking, getting tans, pissing on people's lawns, and being obnoxious assholes both during and after the baseball season. :fthecubs :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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