Hatchetman Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 raise a lot of questions in my mind. i've studied the methodology and it made plenty of sense, but there sure are some odd numbers. for instance, jeter was horrible last year but near the top this year. jeff kent leading the league at 2B? anyway, the sox don't fare too well. harris is particularly bad... http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/wsalpos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox05 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 raise a lot of questions in my mind. i've studied the methodology and it made plenty of sense, but there sure are some odd numbers. for instance, jeter was horrible last year but near the top this year. jeff kent leading the league at 2B? anyway, the sox don't fare too well. harris is particularly bad... http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/wsalpos/ How do you calculate this stat? I couldnt find it on the site..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 anyway, the sox don't fare too well. harris is particularly bad... WS is a cumulative stat, like RBI or HR. The more PT you get the higher your WS will be. Willie had a fielding WS of 4.1 while only playing 660 innings at 2B(220 in CF where you accumulate less due to fewer balls hit your way) Brian Roberts -- 4.3 in 1200 innings at 2B Belliard -- 4.8 in 1320 Soriano -- 4.8 in 1248 Bellhorn -- 4.9 in 1044 Harris is f***ing AWESOME in the field. League leader Orlando Hudson had 6.6 in 1124 innings in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 my bad, i read the 1.6 for menechino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Harris is f***ing AWESOME in the field. League leader Orlando Hudson had 6.6 in 1124 innings in the field. That makes it all the more mystifying to me why the #1 offseason priority seems to be Vizquel. I know Harris has an apalling lack of power, seemed timid at the plate sometimes, and doesn't seem to know how to steal at the ML level. But he did actually improve last season and he's young enough that he can still get better. And at the plate he's not that much worse than Vizquel in OBP (most important stat for a 1 or 2 hitter I think). Meanwhile the Sox are content to start a .200 hitting catcher and Grilli every 5th day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Because the Sox want Willie and Juan battling, but I think the most likely outcome will be Willie in the 9 hole and Juan spelling Crede, Willie, and Omar. I guarantee you Uribe will start against most left handed pitchers. I don't think the Sox have given up on Willie, they just know between Willie, Juan, and Crede their are some questionmarks, although all 3 have the capabailities, so this way you have a few options if one of them doesn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Career .186/.234/.233 vs. LHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Law Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 There are several problems with using the defensive win shares total. 1. It does not account for the range of a player. Jeff Kent doesn't drop anything, but he has the range William "the Fridge" Perry. You get no credit for "creating" an out with a great play. 2. WS is cumulative for the season. Hudson scored high because he was healthy and always in the line-up. It would be like looking at Uribe's and Mags season HR totals and concluding they were equally as powerful. 3. Stats are adjusted by park. Since less runs are scored at Dodger Stadium, then Coors Field....the defensive plays in LA are valued greater. We can't look at WS from Shea Stadium and expect that to correlate to the Cell. WS is excellent at determining a players value to his teams past success. But that number is useless in valuing future performance without considering the effect of many factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 1. It does not account for the range of a player. Jeff Kent doesn't drop anything, but he has the range William "the Fridge" Perry. You get no credit for "creating" an out with a great play. Jeff kent's range factor is above league average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Career .186/.234/.233 vs. LHP. That's in only 130 abs. I would really like these question answered: Do the Sox really think that 130 abs tells you that much about a player? If not, they clearly don't trust WH against lhp -- is that b/c there's information from his minor league stats that he can't hit lhp? And if so, why did they trade for him and have so much confidence in him? I'm asking anyone who knows about this. I've never understood why they allowed Valentin to bat against lhp on a regular basis, but never even gave Willie a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Apparently one outing is enough for them to judge a starting pitcher, so 130+ aB's is probably way more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Because the Sox want Willie and Juan battling, but I think the most likely outcome will be Willie in the 9 hole and Juan spelling Crede, Willie, and Omar. I guarantee you Uribe will start against most left handed pitchers. I don't think the Sox have given up on Willie, they just know between Willie, Juan, and Crede their are some questionmarks, although all 3 have the capabailities, so this way you have a few options if one of them doesn't work out. I think we can all agree that Harris can hit RHP's. Against LHP's, as Cheat's stats show, not very good. Which is why - in my ideal offseason, you'd trade for Jerry Hairston, and put him and Harris in a platoon situation at 2B, and give Uribe a job as super utility, spelling Crede and Vizquel. Crede gets off to a slow start again, Uribe can jump in at third for awhile, while Valdez can jump in every once in a while at short. Meanwhile, at 2B, you have a damn good leadoff two headed monster with Harris and Hairston, that would be capable, at the very least, of putting up a .370 OBP (Harris .366 vs. righties, Hairston .376 vs lefties) -- not to mention the speed both of them have. But that's just me. I think the White Sox have different thinking, wanting Uribe to start a big portion of the games this year at 2B, rather than that super-utility role... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I think we can all agree that Harris can hit RHP's. Against LHP's, as Cheat's stats show, not very good. Which is why - in my ideal offseason, you'd trade for Jerry Hairston, and put him and Harris in a platoon situation at 2B, and give Uribe a job as super utility, spelling Crede and Vizquel. Crede gets off to a slow start again, Uribe can jump in at third for awhile, while Valdez can jump in every once in a while at short. Meanwhile, at 2B, you have a damn good leadoff two headed monster with Harris and Hairston, that would be capable, at the very least, of putting up a .370 OBP (Harris .366 vs. righties, Hairston .376 vs lefties) -- not to mention the speed both of them have. But that's just me. I think the White Sox have different thinking, wanting Uribe to start a big portion of the games this year at 2B, rather than that super-utility role... I do agree with this. That is of course if we do get Visquel, if not, I'm for Uribe playing SS for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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