WestEddy

Gene Lamont managed 4 seasons in Pittsburgh after the Sox. Terry Bevington was also a coach for Toronto after leaving.

Guillen managed in Miami after the Sox. His mouth got him fired, and probably ended his managerial career.

The Sox have always been a tight organization with secrets. I would think the main reason for an agent tossing their client's name out to the press would be to gin up the bidding. At this point, it's the Sox and Marlins.

Nobody will be as good as Crochet, but I think Cannon/Burke/Martin/Thorpe are higher floor than Soroka/Flexen/Nastrini.

I think the pitching staff stands to be a clear upgrade over the bunch that broke camp in 2024. Even if they keep Grady, I think they head into 2025 with a lot more energy than this last season.

What are you even talking about? Do you even read what you're commenting on? Nobody is saying to leave Getz alone. A comment that players liked playing for Sizemore better than Grifol has ballooned into a freakout about players picking their next manager. Then here comes you, hammering your agenda. LOL.

Chris Sale once threw a tantrum and screamed in KW's face to get out. No, Hahn never seemed to be comfortable there.

Yes, that one.

This entire conversation arc has gone from "players like playing for him" to Miguel Vargus and Nicky Lopez are conducting the interviews, basically. If someone would note that Chris Getz survives by breathing oxygen, a good dozen people would jump in and pretend that is a sign of a horrible GM. Breathing oxygen.

Wasn't that an issue for Chris Sale? FO types coming into the clubhouse where they didn't belong? KW even had spies telling him how things were going in the clubhouse.

No I don't. The players are human beings and can understand getting clear instruction, or being used in a defined role, regardless of whether their team has won enough baseball games, or not. A player can point out that rookies are sleeping out in the bullpen, or guys are just playing for their stat lines. But hey, I started out salty yesterday, well into a 2nd bottle of wine. You do what you feel you must.

Getz probably isn't in the clubhouse. Why wouldn't he pick the brains of a couple vets to get a feel for whether Sizemore is giving clear instruction and feedback to players? I would assume that a GM knows what qualities he wants in a manager.

I was reacting to your opinion of "why would anyone pay attention to guys who were historically bad?". No, the players are not picking the manager, regardless of whether they played well or not. I could see Getz caring how Sizemore's perceived by the players, as any GM would. I'm not sure why you'd think it so ludicrous that a GM would get a player's perspective on the manager. Yes, I agree with you that if you discount all the games that the Sox won under Sizemore, his record looks worse than Grifol's.

I'm not adding anything to what Hayes said. Yes, Keaschall looks better than Vargas right now. I think the Cease trade was good for what it was. Jury's out on the Fletcher and Barrios deals. The Vargas deal doesn't look good. Perez hit okay in A-ball. I'll wait to see what Vargas looks like next year. That whole trade looks like a rookie mistake, to me. Getz spent too much time putting it together for him to walk away.

Okay, so it's Dan Hayes. It sounds like Getz started high, didn't like whatever the Twins were offering with Keaschall, and Hayes said the Twins "got the sense that both the Sox and Tigers didn't want to trade in the division". So this version of events is driven by the Twins FO. And Hayes is reporting that the Twins "got the sense" that multiple teams didn't want to do that. You're assigning the Twins' perception of the attitudes of multiple teams to an actual Getz quote. I'm not sure how that makes me a hypocrite. But hey, the guy who must proclaim that every single move made by Getz is an abject failure declares this trade an abject failure. Go figure.

Then I'll reply in that thread. I've been told that dragging arguments from one thread to another is bad.

I don't know what you're talking about in that first sentence. Players' opinions matter when it comes to how a manager dealt with players, regardless of whether that team was bad, or not.

Games against the "2nd worst team" in the league still count. And the Tigers were still playing for their seed and momentum going into the playoffs. Kerry Carpenter went nuts and threw his helmet after his grand slam in the last game. They cared. As to your original post, yes, the opinions of players matter, even on a team that was historically bad. Weird how guys can leave the team, and if they dish, their opinions matter, but if they give positive feedback on any aspect of the clubhouse, they don't. You'll have to walk me through that logic.

No, I have no idea what you're talking about. That's a 45 page string covering 10 months of posts.

Oh, so if you take away all his victories, his record's even worse? Even players on the worst team in history have an opinion on whether they're confused about their roles or not.

You're saying the opinions of the players are worthless because they didn't have a winning record. Grady Sizemore had a better winning percentage than Pedro Grifol. I don't know/don't care if Getz/TLR/JR will take that into consideration. If they retain Sizemore as manager, maybe they did.

1) you didn't link to a comment I made, so I have no idea what you're referring to. 2) I don't think "hypocritical" means what you think it does.

In football and basketball, the coaches draw up plays. In baseball, it's more about team construction. These guys live with each other for most of 6 months, so it's about managing personalities, communicating roles, and putting players in position to succeed. Some people here opine about Romy Gonzalez and his .723 OPS. If he was on the White Sox, he would have a hot streak, then Grifol would start him at 2B. He would become exposed, and OPS the same .550 everybody else did. Alex Cora picked his spots, and put him in positions where his profile could thrive.

I'm strangely intrigued by Buck Showalter. I think he's an A to B type manager.

It's funnier, still, that guys on the internet think their opinions have more weight than actual players on the team. Tell us, Floyd Bannister 1983, how were the training exercises?