Look at Ray Ray Run

I know you love Harold but sheesh. Harold had these exact same complaints the day they signed grandal, his thoughts haven't changed. Harold has said grandal cost pitchers strikes which is 1000% wrong and indisputable. There are tons of scouts in baseball, they all have opinions and plenty of them are wrong.

And people wonder why baseball has fired 50% of their old school scouts. Scout: "this guy costs his team countless strikes." Real data: compared to every other catcher in the league, this player has gotten more out of the zone strikes called than anyone in baseball. Scout: "i saw what I saw! Computers can't see, you nerd." Thanks for your contribution, here's your severance.

Framing can be measured harold so no one cares about your eye test.

Most great center fielders play very shallow now-a-days, but some prefer coming in on baseballs. Luis is actually a real interesting study as he appears more comfortable into the allys and coming in on the ball, and he's so fast he can play deeper than most; which for an elite center fielder, he does. Andruw Jones made playing ridiculously shallow famous because there's never been an outfielder in the history of the game that went back on baseballs like him. He was able to read the sound better than anyone i can remember and could almost tell you how far a ball was bit without even looking at it. Keirmeir is incredible at reading a swing - which can confuse and trick plenty of other outfielders. Kevin is so good at reading swings that he has multiple instances in his career where his reaction time has literally been a negative number.

Harold's takes on grandal crack me up. So, pitchers don't have to throw the pitches grandal calls; if that's the argument being made. Pitchers can shake off their catcher if they feel he's not on the same page. They can call their own game. And grandal steals strikes which is more valuable than the occasional bone headed play. If a pitcher doesn't realize that then that's on them. Hilarious to ask position players to be tougher all the while arguing to pamper pitchers.

So position players should be tougher but pitchers can be whiny and soft? Got it.

Yes, most good outfielders won't track a baseball during its flight. They'll turn and burn to a spot, find the ball and adjust if they have to. Center field, due to the ball not tailing as it does in right and left, is actually much easier for this type or play. If you're a career center fielder the hardest adjustment when moving to a corner is exactly that. I've always personally felt that center was the easiest outfield position for me to play because of that, despite having to cover twice as much ground. With the exception of a liner right at you in center, the ball generally travels much more true in center.

We need a recount!!

My head hurts. Vulture heres your hint buddy. dWAR exists historically. DRS does not.

Edit: I just give up

What you cited little states what I said. This is amazing. Pal, I get being skeptical but this isn't a debate. Do you notice how they don't add the part about framing for yours. There are no assumptions in statistical analysis. If the its not listed its not included.

Route efficiency is actually real easy to measure. Off the bat there's a direct line to the ball. How much you deviate from that path can be measured.

Because they're grown men who are professional baseball players and keuchel "learned to win" on a team that cheated to win. His quote is absurd. Hes not their daddy and real leaders don't spout off about how they're teammates were losers before he got there. Id think it was a clown move as well, as would most guys who work their asses off to reach the pinnacle of their profession.

I was more worried my wife was cheating on me with alsbeef and leaking white sox intel in the process.

Lol pal I've tried to be helpful to you and you just refuse to listen. You can literally hold your mouse over the dWAR stat you are citing to see how its calculated and you'd see that it doesn't include framing. It uses the 2003 calculation for DRS. Then hover your mouse over DRS and it'll show you that one specifically includes framing. I literally have this stuff exported to my own dbms daily. Im relatively familiar with how most of the stats are calculated from analysis I did in my early 20's and mid 20's when I worked with that kind of data. I've tried to be respectful and explanatory and its just gone over your head for whatever reason.

While eatons reaction off bat has ranked in the top 15 among all of'ers in 2019 and 2020, of over 100 qualified outfielders he ranked 4th from last and 8th from last in route efficiency.

? hmmmmmm

I literally just posted an article from 2019 in which Fangraphs says "WE ADDED FRAMING TO OUR WAR calculations." ??? This is my last post and time saying this; I posted the baseball reference chart to show YOU that baseball reference does NOT include framing in their defensive war (dWAR) calculations. THey only account for it in their DRS calculation. You cited defensive war (dWAR), not DRS or overall WAR. edit; I would have been a terrible teacher apparently.

edit: Duplicate below.

No, I cited that graph to show you where baseball reference specifically states that framing is ONLY accounted for on their cite in DRS. They specifically state that stat. You are citing dWAR which is an entirely different statistic. lol

Believe it or not, Baseball reference has no reason to update their list when fangraphs makes changes because they're competition! https://blogs.fangraphs.com/war-update-catcher-framing/ My goodness, have a nice night man.

bWAR now captures framing; because instead of taking their dWAR rating they now use a DRS calculation in their WAR calculation. This was updated recently. The problem is this guy is citing dWAR from B-Ref and doesn't understand that calculation does NOT include framing and does not use the updated DRS calculation that does include framing. I honestly get that this shit can be complicated, but Jeeze man to constantly tell me I'm wrong over and over when the guy is just misunderstanding is wild stuff ha.

I honestly think you have to be trolling me by now. On Bref - you can hover over the stat and it will tell you what it includes. When you hover over Rdrs (Defensive runs saved) it tells you it specifically INCLUDES framing. When you hover over dWAR it SPECIFICALLY states it uses the OLD DRS calculation that DOES NOT include framing. Can you please stop quoting me now, my head is starting to hurt. Regarding fangraphs, I AM NOT citing Fangraphs fWAR. I am specifically citing their DEF rating which includes framing. Jaysus christ man. There is no gotcha moment here; you just simply do not even understanding what you're citing.

Yes, DRS, not dWAR.

Wrong on what claim? Bref uses framing in their DRS calculation somewhere not their defensive WAR calculations. https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_comparison.shtml